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Post by Parmen Redwyne on Apr 9, 2019 3:39:01 GMT 1
So I have an event idea in the Riverlands for Phase 2 that could be fun, introduce a few of the Riverland NPC's, basically a major tourney with a joust and a melee, nothing like the gigantic undertaking at Highgarden, will play out more like a series of random encounters for the PC's involved, NPC on NPC action being up to narrator whim. Going there would mean missing out on various stuff such as the Lysette+Aemon marriage and other stuff, but it could be the only melee during off-season (maybe I could pull off something in phase 4). Though I'm not going to do any work on that until a PC declares that they'll be going. It will depend on what Lord Levalle's plans for Phase 2 entail but Parmen likes a good melee.
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Post by Septon Abelar on Apr 9, 2019 22:53:00 GMT 1
It's a good thing I'm not on trial for my math skills, since I under-counted opposing public pressure by sixteen.
You'd think the preacher could read the crowd . . .
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 9, 2019 23:08:35 GMT 1
It's a good thing I'm not on trial for my math skills, since I under-counted opposing public pressure by sixteen. You'd think the preacher could read the crowd . . . You've done so well in the past reading crowds...
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OOC III
Apr 10, 2019 13:50:12 GMT 1
Post by Father on Apr 10, 2019 13:50:12 GMT 1
Also, for future reference, of various events and stuff so far, what sort of things would you most like to see more of in the future, and what sort need not be repeated?
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OOC III
Apr 10, 2019 19:30:30 GMT 1
Post by Father on Apr 10, 2019 19:30:30 GMT 1
What I am thinking with the Whitewalls stuff is that going to that Tourney will force you to give up participation at the two planned weddings that has tourneys (Lysette+Aemon and Gwayne Meadows+Ashford daughter), probably about even in terms of available rewards. And those events only have jousting.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 10, 2019 19:36:40 GMT 1
/looks in cast of 1000s /sees two Great Bastards for Butterwell
Balon will be going to Whitewalls. Lol
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 10, 2019 23:11:15 GMT 1
Also, for future reference, of various events and stuff so far, what sort of things would you most like to see more of in the future, and what sort need not be repeated? Well, personally, I like the events where there's a definite *effect* at the end of them, rather than 'just' point scoring/regard gaining (although they are certainly useful). Like, for example, the inheritance issue with House Bridges - it was not particularly *significant* in the grand scheme of things, but it made a difference, which can then provoke PCs into action, as that did. I think that's the key thing I'd like to see more of, if possible - consequences of events which can provoke a reaction (even if just in conversation) among PCs. (Though that's not to say that I'd like it to become common that a single PC can override the result of an event, but there are other possible reactions to incite.) I'd also like to see more 'grey' in the choices. Often in events, people have their choices largely dictated by their chosen faction. I believe the Abelar trial is notable for being one of the few events *not* broken down along 'party lines', with no inarguable 'right side' (saving the Merryweathers may have been apolitical, but to save the innocents in danger was undeniable the 'moral' choice). To me, their choice and arguments here reveals far more about their character than any number of feast speeches. That's my 2 stag's worth, anyway.
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 11, 2019 0:26:33 GMT 1
I'm too new to be able to comment on previous events much, but I share Laena's thoughts about the kind of events that are good for creating drama and activity.
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Post by Septon Abelar on Apr 11, 2019 2:09:17 GMT 1
Also, for future reference, of various events and stuff so far, what sort of things would you most like to see more of in the future, and what sort need not be repeated? I second Laena's point about events that don't break down easily along factional lines. Other things I would like to see more of: -events that are more accessible to low status/chivalry/virtue characters and less accessible to the inverse. Some of the tavern scenes have been like this. -events that aren't as swingy in terms of lots of players backing one side over the other. Right now, NCs serve to balance, but I think you could also say the event is decided by the point totals among the top three per side or something. -slightly more clarity on event rules, as many of them require explanation, which delays engagement -more whodunit events where characters have asymmetric starting positions depending on how much they've uncovered beforehand. The Levalles getting an early start on the mob scene is one example, and Daeron's finding the kidnappers might be another, though I don't recall all the details of that. Generally, I like the events, including the thought that goes into making benefits and drawbacks relevant to them.
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Post by Daeron Wildfyre on Apr 11, 2019 2:33:30 GMT 1
I liked events that: -Break up the normal Fire/Blood dynamic, like Abelar and Johanna's trials. -Have opportunities for combat that's not a duel or a joust (I do play a martial character after all) like the riot or Roland's surprise defense of Lady Alicent. -Offer opportunities for competition/cooperation between characters like the Steel and Ribbons, Matchmakers, or some of the stuff leading up to the Melee.
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Post by Roland Cordwayner on Apr 11, 2019 11:04:54 GMT 1
I liked:
- Events with a narrative effect alongside the faction/chivalry/glory (etc) scoring (which is still interesting on its own and gives a good framework), like the Bridge succession or setting a precedent on Cordwayner succession. - Events that force choices - do I follow political aims or just focus on the event at hand due to personal investment in it/morals/desire to win particular event rather than sacrificing it for the bigger picture? I liked Abelar's trial, as Roland's (fatal) decision here was directed by Titus's choice. It was great that the relationship with a fellow PC (well PCs - Donnel's & Abelar's influence were felt too) had a strong impact on subsequent mechanical choices. These choices reveal interesting things about a character. - That events managed to test a range of abilities without feeling forced (working in Language (various) nicely for a range of things, same for Will (Courage) etc). From running a similar game I know how hard this is! - Events that give a range of PCs a chance to contribute: the feast's challenges giving higher scores the first pick of opponents but everyone scoring lower still getting a foe worked well. It rewards high rolls and a range of statistics (reinforcing the setting's emphasis on reputation, status and so on) while still allowing broad participation. - Seconding Abelar on asymmetry in events being cool/welcome and liking the examples we've had of this so far. Good work. Disliked:
- Balance in combat encounters. As discussed in the Starling forums, having a much stronger NPC take your character's fate out of their hands (due to Ser Sandor having Berserker, therefore both making the combat effectively unwinnable even with destiny point spending and also removing my PC's chance to yield) is the opposite of fun. Our narrator is good at maths, and could presumably see the likely outcome before Roland's fatal combat even started. Sudden PC death is good for matching the overall tone of the series, but it isn't so good for the player concerned (hence my previous comments that Roland's death can be a net gain for the game but a large negative for a single player). Being out of control of the fate of a PC you've invested time and energy in isn't much fun unless it is at a climactic moment. Daeron is pretty combat focused and has just lost two duels to NPCs too. Our narrator has commented on balance issues already, which is encouraging but too late for Ser Roland. - Similarly, introducing new combat NPCs that are better than most of the top tier of the previous series is best done against NPCs. I suppose from the perspective of the other PCs/NPCs Roland was that NPC. - The tone in some of the events, as discussed in the OOC forum and Starling forum previously but I think I'm almost alone here as only one PC seemed to agree with me. Specifically, the remembrance thread (http://greatbastards.boards.net/thread/834/day-12-remembrance-wanted-event) and then Ser Rennifer Waters literally grabbing the Starling heir "Trump Style" at a feast to only provoke is duel (rather than arrest/execution, particularly under King Daeron) is close to a gonzo/parody version of the TV Series rather than the novels. Narrator and I have discussed this in the Starling forum already and agreed that it may have gone a bit over the top, so I'm mainly intending to share this rather than being critical for criticism's sense. - High NPC presence in a lot of events, but a decent chunk of this is personal style/preference and can also be used as a balancing tool. Broad NPC participation is good for verisimilitude and a living world, having PCs be decisive is good for players feeling they're having an impact. Like a said, a style/preference issue.
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Post by Father on Apr 11, 2019 14:38:34 GMT 1
Main reason I'm throwing out the question is that for the most part I'm sitting behind this screen playing the games of "what is my best guess for what will be entertaining" and "what do I feel like writing now" and there tends to be a black box I throw materials into and sometimes I get more commentaries on things people like, and most of the time there is nothing, and it's tough to interpret the meaning of nothing.
I also generally go by the rule that it's better to be happy about something that is 90%, take it for a spin and patch up the issues as they arise than spend twice the time in preparation to get it (almost) to 100%, so events sometimes needing clarifications is probably for the best I think.
So far I'm reading: -Try to get more stuff which doesn't just involve the nobles playing the game of thrones with each other. -When there's opportunity for duels and fun, it should be equal opportunity (but earlier birds can still get fattier worms). avoid loads and loads of NPC's in the same event (and honestly, I need to stop anyway, it seems a good idea at the beginning, but just turns everything utterly tedious). -Try and throw in more event outcomes that isn't a faction vs faction thing. -Remove the restrictions on who can go to the Whitewalls tourney (by having to sacrifice other events) because that will offer opportunities to do new things. -It's okay to tweak NPC stats for the sake of balance. -Most of the NPC's shouldn't hit on everything that moves.
Not all of that will be easy.
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OOC III
Apr 11, 2019 15:29:08 GMT 1
Post by Roland Cordwayner on Apr 11, 2019 15:29:08 GMT 1
Main reason I'm throwing out the question is that for the most part I'm sitting behind this screen playing the games of "what is my best guess for what will be entertaining" and "what do I feel like writing now" and there tends to be a black box I throw materials into and sometimes I get more commentaries on things people like, and most of the time there is nothing, and it's tough to interpret the meaning of nothing. I also generally go by the rule that it's better to be happy about something that is 90%, take it for a spin and patch up the issues as they arise than spend twice the time in preparation to get it (almost) to 100%, so events sometimes needing clarifications is probably for the best I think. Totally agree on gathering feedback - hard to know what is/isn't working without asking for it but people are often reticent in RPGs (fear of upsetting other players/narrator, worried it comes across as complaining etc). Good to have a chat on this and it is very much this spirit that I offered up my commentary on the "tone" elements that didn't sit right we with (and glad this was taken in the spirit it was intended both here and in the Starling forum). Sympathetic to your stance on event rules - writing what is effectively rules text is hard as people interpret things differently, so it is generally best to go with what makes sense to you and then players can ask questions. I'll confess that I've always been crystal clear that I draw the line on my Doomtown card game involvement at the playtest team. Rules team for any game is even more like hard work than playtest!
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Post by Roland Cordwayner on Apr 11, 2019 19:30:41 GMT 1
There is clearly some mistake, I can't find the private forum for the suspiciously similar Ser Noland Boardwayner. Roland (or a Kingsbridge knight with suspiciously similar results to one of his stats): +2 Disposition with Lord Yronwood. +1 Influence +1 Disposition from dancing partners with a combined status of 6 Alternatively, this should clearly be credited to the awesome Ser Vardis of Kingsbridge.
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OOC III
Apr 11, 2019 19:49:55 GMT 1
Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 11, 2019 19:49:55 GMT 1
Also, for future reference, of various events and stuff so far, what sort of things would you most like to see more of in the future, and what sort need not be repeated? Things I like/don't like. Future events/story arcs I'd want to see. Miscellaneous. All in no particular order. - Events that have effects. The kidnapping of Aladore Florent is a good example. Potentially turning a principal house to Fire/Blood was important enough that Addam burned a DP to get first dibs at the rescue. As a result Lord Reynald is a Fire supporter now. That was fun and had enough agency that I *really* wanted to see BF supporters win. -I wouldn't discount Events that have F/B scores as the end result because it's a good way for non schemers to get point accumulation. -Threads that are a result of individual Disposition increases. We have events like the Remembrance, Midnight Summer's Feast, etc where there is a chance for making friends. I'd like to see rewards for that. I'll use myself as an example. Everyone is House Florent's disposition with me is +6 right now (Friendly). Lyanna Florent is +7 (damn near affectionate). Lets see a reward for this work we put into these increases. Maybe Reynald Florent wants something done and turns to Addam and I because he "likes" us. Maybe Lyanna has a crush on me and doesn't want to marry <country rube name here> and comes to me for help. I'm sure there are other PCs with high dispositions with NPCs that might like a neat side quest. -While I agree the level of whoring might have been a bit excessive at Karl's remembrance (well, for most characters) I have yet to see someone pay the price, a real price, for all the horizontal mambo going on. No ladies with bastards (from PCs or NPCs). No marriage fiascos (cough, Parmen, cough), No lords demanding satisfaction for their "virtuous" daughter getting split like a piece of wood. Where is the consequences? Yes Alicent Florent is spending some time in a motherhouse and Farman messed up his chances with the Roxton girls but lets see something (not a death mind you, maybe something like the Aemon and Sebaston duel). -Further tweaking of House Rules. The death of Roland because of Berserker being a prime example. If I'm the superior warrior but I come out of a fight looking like shit because the other guy kept using fatigue to ignore wounds and piss pound me then something needs a closer look. Maybe fatigue halves penalty? I don't know. Theorycraft isn't my strong suit. -Warfare: The trickiest thing to do and pull off. Got a lot of knights, some who want to be Fireball 2: Electric Boogaloo. Throw a small warfare at them. Maybe a small lord had his title revoked and refuses to surrender his castle. Can have an event to determine the leader (like the Mock Battle of Prince's Pass), then slug it out. Scale those walls! - I like NPC involvement. Not only does it create an opportunity for alliances and enemies it balances out the skewed pro-Fire or Blood numbers. I think there is a pretty big gap between Blood and Fire players at the moment and bringing in certain NPCs helps with balance. - You've already said it but a retuning of NPCs. PCs shouldn't stomp all the competition but I feel like certain NPCs could defeat Blackfyre and he's GoT Jesus of the time period. Manfryd Grimm could possibly beat Blackfyre in a 1 v 1 and that sounds crazy to me. There should be NPCs that outclass us (be it intrigue or combat) that we should aspire to use xp to surpass (Rennifer e.g.). Maybe I'm wrong but Daeron got his butt kicked twice now. Maybe it was bad luck in the draw. Roland beat Rennifer but took a beating to do it then was killed by Sandor Daverhyl. And I'd say they are top end melee fighters. -I'm ok with having to do an either/or for certain events. Orgy or Tribunal? Butterwell or Starling? I know from a synchronized time perspective it might be messy but instead of either or go: here is a list of 5 events. Pick 3.
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