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Post by Robyn Redwolf on Jun 21, 2020 17:15:53 GMT 1
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Post by Father on Jun 22, 2020 11:20:19 GMT 1
R1 vs Robyn: Knockdown: 5d6k3 13 Success. Grab, Attack: 2#7d6k4 20 21Grab Success. 3*5-6=9 damage. Robyn is grabbed and prone.
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Post by Robyn Redwolf on Jun 22, 2020 16:17:55 GMT 1
Will be taking a fatigue to ignore the wound LA 1: TToWS-B: WR 5 CR 2 Break Free of Grab (+1 for Talented, -3 For Fatigue): 5d6k4-2 17TToWS-B: WR 5 CR 2 Standing up (-3 For Fatigue): 3d6-3 11 That should be 2 DoS for a free action LA 2: Move Away CR 3 GA TToWS-B: WR 5 CR 3 CYB (-1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 4d6k3-3 11 3 DoS for 3 HP CR 4 GA TToWS-B: WR 5 CR 4 CYB (-1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 4d6k3-3 5 2 DoS for 2 HP CR 5 GA TToWS-B: WR 5 CR 5 CYB (-1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 4d6k3-3 15 4 DoS for 4 HP CD: 18 (+4 for Shield, +3 for Cautious) AR: 6 HP: 10/12 I/W/F: 0/1/3 Robyn had hardly kicked down the mook for the second time before slamming his weapon down in their chest, watching the metal bend and crush the soldiers ribs. He smiled, they can really win this. Before his knee was kicked in from behind, causing him to fall forward, as someone grabbed him, rolling him over as he tried to break free before he was hit by another mighty blow. His head was spinning now, and instead of letting it affect him, he pushed through his pain and broke free of the grab that held him, elbowing the guy for good measure before standing up quickly. He imagined if he was wearing better armor, he wouldn't be in such pain. Then again, if he was wearing better armor, he wouldn't be able to get away fast enough. He sprinted away, finding a empty place in the battle to assess and reevaluate. They were winning, weren't they? As he caught his breath, he looked for his Uncle, and Mikel, and anyone else he knew. The sea of battle rung in his ears and he was frightened. Terrified. This was the closest he had ever come to death, and in staring it in the face, he realized that he would need to get stronger before he could conquer it. But there wasn't time to get stronger, he was in the thick of warfare, with his men and friends beside him. "COME ON MEN, DONT STOP TILL THIS CASTLE IS OURS!!" He let out a scream as he readied himself, calmly steadying his stance. He only hoped that the others would succeed in their swings. They had to.
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Post by Davos Dayne on Jun 23, 2020 20:47:06 GMT 1
I used the following assumptions for the below 1)Order bonuses to recover do not apply to the 'free' CYBs 2)Warfare units taking injuries from a recover do not recover health from the injury, just from the "free" CYBs If (1) is incorrect, it will make no difference on the below. If (2) is incorrect, Unit 3 would have recovered an additional 6 health and would be at -9/14. Round 6Stat Blocks (start of round) Unit One, led by "Owen" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 0/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: CYB (+2)
Unit Two, led by "Ty" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 8/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: Davos, Mikel, Robyn Standing Orders: Attack Guards (+2)
Unit Three, led by "Theo" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health -22/14 (routed) Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: Attack archers (+3) autonomous reform/quit the field
Davos CD: 12 (+4 shield) AR 10 Health: 2/12 W/I/F: 0/0/0
Davos Character-Scale Actions R6.1 CYB: 4d6 16 vs TN 0, 4 DoS for 4 health recovered R6.2 CYB: 4d6 13 vs TN 0, 3 DoS for 3 health recovered R6.3 CYB: 4d6 15 vs TN 0, 4 DoS for 4 health recovered R6.4 LA Cautious Attack against Guards (-1D cautious, +1b mounted, +1b/+1 Talented, +1 Sup.Weap): 10d6k4+2 19 3 DoS, 24 damage, dead guard. R6.4 LA Lead from the Front R6.5 Order Unit 3 Reform/Reform (+1D LFtF): 7d6k5 18 vs TN 12 (9+3 for routed) 1 DoSR6.5 Order Unit 3 Reform/Reform (+1D LFtF) Lucky Reroll: 7d6k5 22 vs TN 12 (9+3 for routed) 3 DoS for +2 to tests Unit 1: TWS R6 CYB +2 Standing Orders: 5d6k3+2 18 vs TN 0, 4 DoS for 4 health recovered. Unit 2: TWS R6 LA Aim TWS R6 LA Attack Guards (+1b Aim, +2 S.O.): 6d6k3+2 12 vs CD 10, 1 Dos for 0 Damage. COME ON OROKOS! Unit 3: TWS R6 LA Reform (-1D routed, +2 Orders): 5d6k2+4 15 vs TN 9, 2 DoS. Recovers to Disorganized, takes an Injury, Recovers 1 CYB of health. "Free" CYB (-1D Disorganized): 5d6k2 12 vs TN 0, 3 DoS for 3 Health recovered TWS R6 LA Reform (+2 Orders): 5d6k3+4 16 vs TN 9, 2 DoS. Recovers to Organized, takes an Injury, Recovers 1 CYB of health. "Free" CYB #2: 5d6k3 17 4 DoS for 4 health recovered Stat Blocks (After Round 6 actions, before Bracken R6 actions) Unit One, led by "Owen" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 4/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: CYB (+2)
Unit Two, led by "Ty" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 8/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: Davos, Mikel, Robyn Standing Orders: Attack Guards (+2)
Unit Three, led by "Theo" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health -15/14 (2 Injuries) Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: recover (+2)
Davos CD: 15 (+4 shield, +1 Cautious) AR 10 Health: 12/12 W/I/F: 0/0/0 Leading from the front. Lucky re-roll used.
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Post by Father on Jun 29, 2020 19:44:43 GMT 1
Mikel: You need to figure out how to proceed after getting grabbed, so can't know if you dropped a foe or not. Robyn: So much CyB means I won't bother to roll to see if he's still grabbed. All: Should just do the NPC reactions to character actions (pull from mounts, knockdowns, grabs, attacks, maintaining grabs), their dicepools should be known (The +1D would apply to grabs, but not maintaining grabs or opposing to break free). Should be very precise with ordering of rolls and technique declarations. Davos: Injury does not give back any health (but it does impose a penalty on all rolls after the morale test that triggered it), this does not appear to change anything. Guards vs Davos, Pull, grab, attack: 5d6k3 15 2#6d6k4 20 17+1b on attack: 1d6 1Pretty sure Davos is off his horse, grabbed and I believe that's a 2 DoS attack with grab and powerful for mighty damage of 2. Aim+rocks against FR3: 7d6k4+1 2212 damage. Guards aim+attack FR2: 6d6k3+2 171 damage to FR 2, 17 (With powerful 2) 4 damage/DoS vs characters.FR3 TN 12 morale: 5d6k3 15Back in business, if hurting a bit. FR 1: 4/14. FR 2: 7/14. FR 3: -27/14, 2 injuries new "0" at -22. G (pushed back 4 yards): 5/15 +2 from standing orders A: 2/12. +1 from standing orders. Manfryd Bracken: CD: 15 (6 cover, 4 shield), AR 10, Health 12/12.
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jul 2, 2020 7:55:57 GMT 1
CD: 17 (11 base) AR: 6 Health: 2/12 Movement: 5/20 I/W/F: 3/2/2 R5.4 LA1 P3 TWS R5.3 - Escape Grab (fighting-brawl v fighting-brawl), (talented, reckless, 2injury, 2fatigue, 2wounds): 8d6k4-3 12talented reroll P3 TWS R5.3 - Escape Grab talented reroll TN 2: 1d6 2No change. LA2 P3 TWS R5.3 (LA2) - Escape Grab (fighting-brawl v fighting-brawl), (talented, reckless, 2injury, 2fatigue, 2wounds): 8d6k4-3 10talented reroll P3 TWS R5.3 (LA2) - Escape Grab talented reroll TN2: 1d6 3R5.5 LA1: Aim LA2: Fighting/Brawling to escape grab P3 TWS R5.5- Reckless, Aim+Fighting/Brawling v Fighting/Brawling to escape (talented, 2wound, 2injury,2fatigue): 9d6k4-3 17talented reroll P3 TWS R5.5- Reckless, Aim+Fighting/Brawling v Fighting/Brawling to escape talented reroll v. TN 4: 1d6 2no change
Mikel had just made it back into the fray when was done with somebody on top of him. He wrestled against the man holding him, seeking to break his hold then regain his feet.OOC: Base CD of 11, +2 for 'Not afraid of you' (I double checked and didn't see anything about it ending due to in this case Otho leaving the scene) and +4 for picking up a large shield. So 11+ 13=17 is what I came to. I rolled to escape the grab, I know it requires a counter roll but I assumed the first two failed. If one should succeed Mikels 5th turn will be a GA to stand. I wanted to clarify if he succeeded in escaping before beginning my next rolls; which will begin with CYBs. Injuries and health updated for by end of 5th round. Round 5.3 should read 5.4 as I started on Mikel's fourth round as directed, to account for the change in situation in his fourth and fifth round.
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Post by Father on Jul 2, 2020 11:39:48 GMT 1
Not afraid of you specifies that the bonus "against that enemy", so only applicable vs Otho. Grab maintenance;resist: 2#5d6k3 15 17 2#5d6k3 23 21+1D's for proneness: 4#1d6 5 5 5 5They failed to hold on during their R4 actions, so can do CyB for R5, only attacks triggers attacks. In short, the dice rolls (potentially) faced: Pull from mount: 5k3 Knockdown: 5k3 Grab: 6k4 (+1b if prone) Maintain grab: 5k3 (+1D if prone) Oppose breaking free: 5k3 (+1D if prone) Attack 6k4 (+1b if prone) It's legitimate to bow out of combat if it seems too forbidding.
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jul 3, 2020 8:36:33 GMT 1
R6.1 GA - CYB P3 TWS 5.5 CYB: 4d6k2-4 52 DoS for +2 Health CD: 15 (11 base) AR: 6 Health: 4/12 Movement: 5/20 I/W/F: 3/2/2 R6.1 GA - CYB P3 TWS 6.1 CYB: 4d6k2-5 62 DoS for +2 Health (6/12) R6.2 GA - CYB P3 TWS 6.2 CYB: 4d6k2-5 21 DoS for +1 Health (7/12) R6.3 GA - CYB P3 TWS 6.3 CYB: 4d6k2-5 62 DoS for +2 Health (9/12) R6.4 GA - CYB P3 TWS 6.3 CYB: 4d6k2-5 72 DoS for +2 Health (11/12) R6.5 - Mikel will 'Wait' for his next turn to gain +2B. He'll do so cautiously (if that is relevant and matters) The man was off him, Mikel didn't recall how. He also didn't remember getting to his feet, nor when it began to hurt so badly to breath. It had to be his ribs, or perhaps his chest. Had Otho caved something in? He shook the thought off and stayed just behind the fighting line. Blood was running in his eyes and his left hip began to make him feel slow as it started to burn. His could feel the blood covering his right forearm. Collect yourself. Despite the pain he kept breathing though some of his exhalations were closer to wheezes. Keep breathing. He started look left and right, he was out of the fighting now but watching it, studying it. There is something I can do that will make a difference. What is it, and where shall it be done? He heard the howl of Robyn's ball and chain. He saw a riderless horse which must have been Davos. What and where... he eyes the unit behind him preparing for their turn. Then returned his gaze to the front as he wiped blood from his eyes. OOC: How close are Mikel, Robyn, and Davos? If I 'assist' another characters rolls is it like passive skills where the assist will not be effected by the wounds taken? I think I know the answer to this but I'll ask anyways; being wounded will effect non-physical rolls (like warfare for example) just as it effects fighting or athletics, correct?
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Post by Robyn Redwolf on Jul 3, 2020 19:59:25 GMT 1
CR 1 TToWS-B: WR 6 CR 1 CyB (-1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 4d6k3-3 13 3 DoS CR 2 TToWS-B: WR 6 CR 2 CyB (-1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 4d6k3-3 9 2 DoS CR 3 WR 6 CR 3 Robyn will take the Pass action, gaining +2b for his next text CR 4 TToWS-B: WR 6 CR 3 Charge at Mook holding Davos (+2b for Passing last Round, +1D for Reckless, +2 For Talented and Superior Weapon, -1D for Charge Action, -1D for Wound, -3 For Fatigue): 8d6k3-1 14 Because of Powerful should be 2 DoS for (5 + 2 for Charge) x 2 - 7 = 7 Damage to that Mook, He also gets hit with Shattering 1 Guards Response WR 6 CR 4 TToWS-B: Guard Knockdown vs Robyn: 5d6k3 16 Success TToWS-B: Guard Grab and Attack vs Robyn (+1b for Prone): 2#7d6k4 21 20 3*5-6=9 damage. Robyn will take one Injury to reduce the damage he took to 5 Robyn is grabbed and prone. Why do the dice roll well for the bad guys huh? CR 5 LA 1 TToWS-B: WR 6 CR 5 Break Free of Grab (+1 for Talented, -1D for Wound, -1 For Injury, -3 For Fatigue): 5d6k3-3 10TToWS-B: Guard Maintain Grab vs Robyn (+1D for Prone): 6d6k4 14 Robyn is still Grabbed LA 2 Not sure if you can test to break out of a grab twice in a turn? If he can, Robyn will do so. TToWS-B: WR 6 CR 5 LA2 Break Free of Grab (+1 for Talented, -1D for Wound, -1 For Injury, -3 For Fatigue): 5d6k3-3 8 Even better Orokos -_- TToWS-B: Guard Maintain Grab vs Robyn 2nd Attempt (+1D for Prone): 6d6k4 19At the end of WR 6, Robyn is Grabbed and Prone, taking Cautious CD: 13 (+4 for Shield, +3 for Cautious, -5 for Grabbed) AR: 6 HP: 6/12 I/W/F: 1/1/3 Robyn took a moment to assess, holding his breath as his arms strained to remain up. His shoulder hurt still, incredibly so, and as he took a moment, waiting to strike, he saw his Uncle, atop his horse, clobbering down a guard. He grinned, his grip tightening on the strap of the shield he pillaged off some poor dead guard. That was what a real champion looked like, a fearless leader clad in armor. Then Robyn watched in horror as that champion was pulled from his horse by a swarm of hands that reached up, pulling him down into the thick of warfare. His muscles ached, but before he had thought it entirely through, Robyn was already moving at a speed he didn't think he could have mustered at the moment towards his Uncle. The howl of his ball and chain swinging above his head was overcast by the rage he screamed out of his mouth, yelling towards the guard that held his Uncle, "LET HIM GO!" before tbe resounding crack of metal against bone brought him back into reality. He looked down at his Uncle for a moment, giving him a charming smile, despite the grime and blood that littered his face and armor, before it is cut short as he is grabbed by the shoulder, thrown to the ground and wailed on for good measure. He tried to bring up his shield, but everything was happening so fast, and he felt his body giving out as he let out a scream.
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Post by Father on Jul 4, 2020 13:57:29 GMT 1
That should sum that round up.
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Post by Davos Dayne on Jul 6, 2020 0:08:18 GMT 1
Pulling Davos from his horse probably seemed like a good idea, but really it was bit of a mistake. Davos' horsemanship had suffered from lack of use in Essos, but that was in part due to a focus on footwork far more advanced than is expected. He rolled to his feet, shrugging off the guardsman's grip and sliding his sword-blade into his visor slit on one smooth motion. He was better off on foot, and there was now a much more competent horseman who could make better use of her. "Robyn! Take my horse!" Warfare Round 7Stat Blocks (start of round) Unit One, led by "Owen" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 4/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: CYB (+2)
Unit Two, led by "Ty" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 7/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: Davos, Mikel, Robyn Standing Orders: Attack Guards (+2)
Unit Three, led by "Theo" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health FR 3: -27/14, 2 injuries new "0" at -22. Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: recover (+2)
Davos CD: 15 (+4 shield, +1 Cautious) AR 10 Health: 6/12 W/I/F: 0/0/0 Lucky re-roll used.
Davos Character-Scale Actions FA TWS R7 Stand (-3AP +5 WDII) vs TN 12: 4d6+2 19 2 Dos, Success as a Free Action CR 7.1 LA TWS CR7.1 Break Grab (+1 Talented): 5d6+1 17 vs TN 14 Succeeds even without Talented re-roll. LA TWS CR7.1 Cautious Attack against Guards (-1D cautious, +1b/+1 Talented, +1 Sup.Weap): 9d6k4+2 25 4 DoS for 20-7= 13 damage. That should be plenty on top of the 7 Robyn did to him last round. TWS 7.1 reaction knockdown vs TN 18: 5d6k3 14 fails TWS 7.1 Reaction grab, attack: 2#5d6k3 15 15 1 DoS each, grab does not exceed my passive Athletics(strength) of 19. 2 damage from Powerful. Forgot the +1D for attacking an individual. 7.1 missing dice: 2#1d6 1 1 Sometimes crappy rolls are for my own benefit. Additional kept dice increase the Grab to 16 and the attack to 19. Grab still fails, Attack goes up to 2 DoS, but still not enough to get past AR so just the 2 powerful. CR 7.2 GA TWS 7.2 Order Unit 3 Attack Archers: 6d6k4 16 vs TN (9+2=11) is 2 DoS for a +1 bonus. CR 7.3 GA TWS 7.3 CYB: 4d6 13 3 Health recovered CR 7.4 TWS 7.4 CYB: 4d6 9 2 Health recovered CR 7.5 TWS 7.5 Knockdown: 7d6k4 10 vs TN 11... *facepalm* TWS 7.5 Cautious Attack against Guards (-1D cautious, +1b/+1 Talented, +1 Sup.Weap): 9d6k4+2 24 Missed a 4th DoS by 1. 3 DoS for 18-7 = 11 damage. Not quite enough to be fatal. TWS 7.5 Reaction KD, Grab, Attack: 5d6k3 13 2#6d6k4 16 23Knockdown fails, Grab fails, With the CD reduction from powerful the attack is exactly 3 DoS... for 2 damage after AR. Unit 1: TWS 7 CYB (+2 S.O.): 5d6k3+2 12 3 health recovered. Unit 2: TWS R7 LA Aim TWS R7 LA Attack Guards (+1b Aim, +2 S.O.): 6d6k3+2 12 I knew it was *possible* to roll worse than last round, but I didn't really think it was going to happen. 1 DoS, 0 damage after AR. I'm starting to think that Unit 2 is full of Bracken sympathizers. 4 Straight rounds of no damage. Approx 51% chance of 2 DoS, but no... Unit 3: TWS R7 LA Aim TWS R7 LA Attack Archers (+1b Aim, -2 Injuries, +1 Orders): 6d6k3-1 14 vs CD 13, 1 DoS 4-1 AR is 3 Damage Well, got the archers into the negative at least... Stat Blocks (After Round 7 actions, before Bracken R7 actions) Unit One, led by "Owen" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 7/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: CYB (+2)
Unit Two, led by "Ty" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health 7/14 Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: Davos, Mikel, Robyn Standing Orders: Attack Guards (+2)
Unit Three, led by "Theo" Seasoned Freeriders, Upgraded Equipment, Dismounted CD 8, AR 7 Health FR 3: -27/14, 2 injuries new "0" at -22. Morale: 3D+2B+2 Animal Handling 3, Athletics 3, Endurance 3, Fighting 3 Longsword 3D+2B, 4 per DoS Movement: 40 (Sprint 130) Characters Attached: none Standing Orders: recover (+2)
Davos CD: 15 (+4 shield, +1 Cautious) AR 10 Health: 7/12 W/I/F: 0/0/0 Lucky re-roll used. Not leading from the front.
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Post by Father on Jul 9, 2020 11:43:48 GMT 1
The breaking is actually an opposed roll: Opposing Davos breaking free: 5d6k3 11No change. Motivate G, A.: 4d6k3 13 5d6k4 16+1 Health to each. Archers on FR3, G on FR2: 7d6k4+1 16 6d6k3+2 168 damage to FR 3, 1 to FR 2, 16 (with powerful 2, damage 4) vs various PC's. Archer morale TN 9: 5d6k3+3 17They're fine. FR 3 Morale TN 19: 5d6k3 16Disorganized. FR 1: 7/14. FR 2: 6/14. FR 3: -35/14, Disorganized, 2 injuries new "0" at -35. G (pushed back 4 yards): 4/15 +2 from standing orders A: -3/12. +1 from standing orders. Manfryd Bracken: CD: 15 (6 cover, 4 shield), AR 10, Health 10/12.
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jul 14, 2020 4:05:50 GMT 1
Are assists based off stats and unaffected by wounds?
I.E. Mikel assists Robyn in his break hold rolls. His fighting is 5 but with wounds 3. So how much of an assist would his assistance grant?
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Post by Father on Jul 14, 2020 12:47:13 GMT 1
Assists are unaffected, so it would be +2, can use the second lesser action to assist a non-attack test also.
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jul 16, 2020 9:37:45 GMT 1
CD: 15 (11 base) AR: 6 Health: 11/12 Movement: 5/20 I/W/F: 3/2/2
Mikel will use his turns accordingly:
Assisting Robyn to break free.
Once free, Mikel will sheath his sword and draw his warhammer.
Mikel will use the following turns to assist any pushing actions by the unit. If there are none he will 'wait'.
***I used this format because it seemed better then assuming how many actions things might take, and there are no rolls involved on Mikels part***
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