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Post by Alliser on Jul 19, 2018 19:58:18 GMT 1
Lord Alliser arrived at the Sept early. His long houppelande sleeves a dark green lined with velvety white fur, interspersed with translucent pearl colored stones. A small well made dagger set in a white sheath decorated with Malechite stones on a white band created a contrasting band also Allisers thin center. Lord Allister made his way towards the back center of the Lords audience area, not wishing to be at the center of attention. Alliser looked around the room closely, noting who was sitting next to whom, as well as the slight polite bustle of Ladies and Lords finding the position that was most advantageous for themselves. He made a note that the seats next to him were the last to be filled, and the Lords who did looked rather uncomfortable. Good, at least these men are not wise enough to realize that sometimes masking your distaste is the best way to ensure greater profit in the future. Lord Allisers house was a small one, but had grown greatly since its founding after the war of the queen and the princess. This was due in large part to the "upjumped knights" of house Levalle knowing when to seize opportunity to ensure that it would benefit their house. We are not in a position that we can be choosers of opportunity. Thus when his grace Aegon asked for favors, who is it in me to deny the undisputed king?
After a while Lord Alliser turned his piercing gaze towards the clergy. He was looking and gauging the reactions of the Septon's as well. Alliser was not niave enough to believe that the church did not have factions and favorites. Having spent a good portion of his formative years bouncing between the excesses of the red keep, and being the cup bearer of Lord Florent in the sept of kings landing, he quickly grew to know that any time men came together that there would always be jostling for position. And sure enough even in High garden there were splits in the clergy. Lord Allisers eyes were drawn to a man, older then himself, but with a burning fire in his eyes as he waited for his turn to speak, Interesting, I need to seek him out after these formalities are dispensed with. Lord Alliser watches with interest the rest of the proceedings, noting the discomfort that flashed over their faces that some of the Septon had as the Older Septon man took his turn at delivering fire about the duties of knights and how they are the gods will on earth. Curious, that could be useful. I wonder if that is the same Septon that Master Olyvar spoke of.
Finally the end of the Sermons came, and there was much excited murmur as the squires rose to knighthood. There was much milling about as the Sept slowly cleared like water from a small hole in a bucket. Lord Alliser approached the Septon of note, "Septon," Lord Alliser announces himself after the man had finished speaking with someone else, "May I commend you on your strong words this morning. It is my hope that with strong leaders like yourself that all knights may walk in the light of the seven." Lord Alliser made the sign of the seven, a perfect image of Lordly virtue.
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 20, 2018 4:11:07 GMT 1
Septon Abelar turns to greet Lord Alliser as his previous conversation partner melts away, deferring to the lord. Abelar clasps hands with the lord during their introduction, revealing a strong grip. "Lord Levalle. Your reputation precedes you." A bottom-feeder from Aegon the Unworthy's court. How many of these gods-be-damned Great Bastards is he responsible for?
But he approaches with grace, and he speaks of the value of the church. Abelar runs a hand through his black and silver hair, composing himself before responding to Alliser. "It is my fervent hope that the holy glow of the vigil will follow each knight throughout his life, to guide him to the light of the Seven and save him from evil and sin. But alas, the temptations of hell have a way of overbearing the will of some knights. It's insidious, turning bravery to vainglory, friendship to lust, disappointment into hate--a different path for each man." He gestures to the milling crowd of freshly-dubbed knights. "It is the duty of every member of the cloth to lift them up when they fall, shield them from their own worst impulses . . . and sting them when they need to be stung. For without true knights, the realm will be lost to darkness, bastardy, and slaughter."
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Post by Alliser on Jul 20, 2018 4:24:45 GMT 1
Lord Alliser nods in acquiesce to the Septon, "On matters of truth and vainglory Septon, you have the right of it. If all knights would but turn towards the mercy the mother offers, I imagine that they could find it easier to walk the narrow path of peace" But I wonder Septon, who is the one who gets to judge, is it the Father or yourself. "So tell me, wise Septon, If a knight is caught with a women who is not his wife, what would the Faith have us do? How would a man repent? Or would the knight need to repent at all if the women led him to her bed?"
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 20, 2018 5:11:29 GMT 1
"My lord, repentance is more art than arithmetic. Each man's path wends its own course. But a man found in bed with another's wife would surely face serious chastisement." Left unsaid is that the birth and station of both man and woman will guide the faith's tenacity in forcing the issue. "Your second question, of the many women leading the knight, is sadly familiar. Women are temptresses by nature, armed with wiles and myriad unholy seductions. It takes a steadfast dedication to the faith, or a watchful septa, to preserve their virtue to the marriage bed. However, the unchaste manipulations employed by women do not excuse a knight's decision to sacrifice his vows in order to gratify the hellish pulse of his loins! Indeed, he must be as unyielding as his steel and share his bed only with his chivalry." Knights sometimes make mock of the hoary old septa's saying about "making room for chivalry" beside one's self in the bed, a saying corollary to the better known "keep enough space for virtue and chastity to twirl betwixt the dancers."
The septon's piercing gaze meets Alliser's. "I might add that others have been known to throw women at knights and lords to gain favor. Perhaps your poor knight has been targeted by shadowy puppeteers. You may rest assured that they too are bound for hellfire." Let us hear your answer, Lord Levalle. The Father is listening.
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Post by Alliser on Jul 20, 2018 5:56:49 GMT 1
As I thought, he might prove useful. Zest in perusing the righteous path can be as useful if not more so then men with more flexible morals. Alliser gave a faint smile, then returned his face to a more serious tone. Alliser nods along with the conversation, adding sounds of affirmation with what the firey septon was saying.
Allisers chuckles inwardly, and there is the problem with those whom are self richeous, if not careful the rock thrown may come round behind you and hit your unprotected nape. Outwardly Alliser remains impassive, then bows his head towards the Septon, "Indeed you are quite correct your holiness. Such men are assuredly the scourge of the land. For how should they not know what the reason is for the King to summon a women. How dare a such a man assume that a lawful king whom wanted to understand the predicament of those poor wretches? Of ensuring that the commons were clean and presentable before his highness? Is such a man ever to be forgiven for obeying the anointed king?" Lord Alliser bows towards the mother, making her sign, "It is merely my hope that should such men exist that they choose to seek the forgiveness, absolution, and counsel as offered by their Septon and the Gods. And may the mother grant them mercy."
Lord Alliser straightens, offering the Septon a look at his somber expression, his hands now clasped together below his waist. "I do not pretend to know the will of men, nor the will of the Gods, your holiness. But should you find yourself speaking to a man who has humbled himself, what would you suggest he do?"
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 21, 2018 4:51:40 GMT 1
Abelar’s brow drops slowly, like a bull preparing to charge. His eyes remain locked with Lord Levalle’s. “My lord’s words are telling. I condemned those who fling women at knights and lords. You reply by speaking of those who throw them at a king. Now it is well-known that you attended the court of the last king. The one who traded titles for trysts, holdfasts for whores, coin for . . . ” I will not say that word in a sept.
Half a heartbeat passes, then the septon continues. “Your defense—that an obedient vassal can preserve his soul by believing that the king meant only to greet and listen to his womanly subjects—is fit only for slobbering fools. King Aegon’s licentiousness was towering and legendary, witnessed by many and proved by an army of bastards. Only a lackwit could believe the sorry explanation you suggest.”
“And it is likewise well-known that the men who plied the king with women, of every birth and station, even including their own sisters or daughters, did not do so merely out of some twisted allegiance to the crown! They were showered with lands, titles, and incomes stolen from the realms of better men.” Now full of righteous fury, Abelar gesticulates as he talks. “Per’aps a scullery wretch could be forgiven for obeying orders to bring a washed maiden to the bed, for such orders come on pain of death or a black cell. BUT AS. YOU. SEEM. TO. KNOW. MY LORD, THE MEN HOLDING THE SPONGE WERE NOT LOWBORN SERVANTS, BUT ANOINTED KNIGHTS AND LORDS, STARVED FOR MODESTY AND YET HUNGRY ONLY FOR POWER!” His eyes are transfixed, unblinking, even as his face twists in anger, though only he knows how much of his wrath is aimed at the sinner before him and how much is triggered by memories of King Aegon's reign. "THEY NEEDED NOT ATTEND HIS COURT, AND YET THEY DID!"
Moderating his tone slightly, the septon moves on to address the question of repentance. "Absolution for such offenses must be great indeed--a return of the ill-gotten gains, the sending of daughters to become septas--one for each one offered up to satisfy the King's appetite--chastisement of the flesh, and perhaps more. The worst offenders must needs undertake incredible labors of faith, like a pilgrimage to walk in Hugor's footsteps, abdication of lordship, or even gelding, like the Kingsguard did to Ser Lucamore Strong when they discovered his wives. A coin replaced for each one stolen, a flower preserved for each one despoiled, a manhood retired for every husband cuckolded."
"My lord, you asked what a man should do if he humbled himself before me. Now it is my turn; I must ask whether a humbled man stands before me now."
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Post by Alliser on Jul 21, 2018 5:16:06 GMT 1
As the Septon's voice raises so does the Lord's eyebrows, the first chink in the Lords courteous armor. "Are you suggesting," Lord Allisers voice is quiet compared to Septons, "That a man has a choice about who his lord and king is?" Lord Alliser is takes in a deep breath. This Septon is walking dangerous territory. If the faith feel that they can choose who the lord is... Is that not what the faith militant did? How many Reachmens lives fed the earth because of their wars against the Targyeons?
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 21, 2018 6:08:04 GMT 1
Abelar makes note of Levalle's cool demeanor. He is surprised, but he does not beat a full retreat. Many lords would have ended the conversation then and there.
"A lord may not be able to choose the king, but if the king is fully corrupted by his desires, a lord can lock himself away in his castle and not venture forth to King's Landing. Many lords did so, thereby shielding themselves from damnation. Other lords flocked to the Red Keep like flies to a sweet corpse." Best not opine on what a lord may do to choose a king in the current climate. Of course, the realm has a way of rejecting impious and intolerable kings--Maegor, Aegon II, others . . . but he turns the conversation away from himself, again.
"Forgive me, my lord, but I did not catch your answer to my question. You asked me what a certain type of humbled man should do, and I asked if one stands before me."
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Post by Alliser on Jul 21, 2018 19:19:25 GMT 1
Interesting, he did not say one way or the other. But this septon is seeking to further recompense. More then I've already offered. I've given to the Sept, let my name be dragged through the mud to protect the realm. I guess this is the rewarded for valor. "Of course I am humble, your Holiness. I have spoken with my septon a number of times regarding many things. I was curious as to what his counsel has been as compared to such an esteemed member of the faith as yourself" Lord Levalle's hands folded in prayerful mediation and his bow was the painting of defence towards the septon.
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 23, 2018 0:47:58 GMT 1
Abelar's words are cutting. "That depends on what you are humbling yourself for." He leaves those words to hang out there. Given Lord Alliser's reputation, and the topic of their conversation, it is clear that the septon is waiting to see whether Lord Alliser is willing to open up about his time in King Aegon's court.
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Post by Alliser on Jul 23, 2018 21:19:36 GMT 1
I have already paid for my sins. Septon Barth has already taken my confession and I have paid my penitence to the Seven. "Septon, I have been humbled, "and every day is a reminder of my shame,"But lets stop dancing, you claim to know my sins, and have stated that any rewards for such service should be returned correct?"
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 23, 2018 23:54:28 GMT 1
Abelar does not back down. "My lord, you asked for my opinion. As I said, each man's path to repentance is unique--as unique as the frayed ends of a greased whip. But yes, setting aside any corrupt profit is a necessary first step, as is setting right the scales as to maidenly virtue." Although Alliser offers up his own conduct for direct discussion, the septon chooses to answer more narrowly. Let him say his misdeeds aloud. I must withhold my full condemnation until he lays out the depth of his involvement. [D2 Alliser] Zealot roll v. TN 15: 6d6k4 18 (success; avoided automatically going ballistic on Alliser)
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Post by Alliser on Jul 24, 2018 6:09:47 GMT 1
Wouldn't it be easy for this Septon if I had sold maidenhead's for a silver and whores for a half penny. How many more virtuous ladies would have been condemned to Aegon's bed had I not played gatekeeper. How many maids were sent to his bed after I left my post after my father died. Is it better that I left so I could not contain him? So I could not stop those Fathers who wanted to sell their maiden daughters flowers to the king? No I would say not. You can not stop wickedness by virtue alone, sometimes you have to get in the muck so you can lay down your cloak for those of better breeding then yourself.
"So Septon, do you want to haggle like old fishwives over the cost of a young women's virtue? Ok I will ask out of morbid curiosity, What does his holiness think the going price of virginity is? I thought such things were relegated to pillow houses, but if you wish to discuss such things in the sept, who am I to judge a Septon?" Lord Alliser has clearly gotten frustrated by the Septon's digging, so was willing to play along in a way that could potently embarrass him with the crassness of discussion.
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jul 25, 2018 0:29:44 GMT 1
Having conquered the urge to go wild with zeal, Abelar's tone remains intense, but moderated. "The price of a maidenhead, my lord, cannot be reduced to silver or gold." Though I do not doubt you could name a price. "The only way I see to atone for causing such loss is to send one's own daughters or sisters to join the faith, so that their virtue may be preserved. Forever." His stare does not waver. "Maiden for maiden, a man must make a septa for each virgin he offered up to the unworthy king. And that is only the beginning. Reparations must be made for the unholy proceeds he received in recompense. If a lord were granted a boon or title in return for sin, he must divest it to the crown or its original owner. And finally, a man must feel the anguish of repentance in his very body, through trials of pain and penitence." If the septon believes that payments to the church can replace any of his prescriptions, he gives no indication.
FYI this rehashes something Abelar said earlier in the thread: Moderating his tone slightly, the septon moves on to address the question of repentance. "Absolution for such offenses must be great indeed--a return of the ill-gotten gains, the sending of daughters to become septas--one for each one offered up to satisfy the King's appetite--chastisement of the flesh, and perhaps more. The worst offenders must needs undertake incredible labors of faith, like a pilgrimage to walk in Hugor's footsteps, abdication of lordship, or even gelding, like the Kingsguard did to Ser Lucamore Strong when they discovered his wives. A coin replaced for each one stolen, a flower preserved for each one despoiled, a manhood retired for every husband cuckolded."
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Post by Alliser on Jul 25, 2018 1:06:57 GMT 1
It is not worth debating with him. He is seeking an easy win, without having to prick his conscience that the world is not so black and white... "Maiden for maiden, a man must make a septa for each virgin he offered up to the unworthy king." Day 2 KRALAS will ded zealot TN 12: 3d6 10"My daughter is of no concern to you, *Septon*." Lord Alliser stresses his title, then takes a breath, trying to calm himself. He can not force you to make your daughter join a Septry. "You are mistaken about my reputation, your holiness." Alliser stares at the eyes behind the beaked nose, "It is an easy thing to do, I was not a popular person at kings landing, and the tasks he gave me were unpleasant. But do not mistake rumors for the man." you pompous ass. "You have given me much to think about. Let me consider your words with my counsel." Day 2 KRALAS deception Bluff + courteous: 6d6k4+2 22
Day 2 KRALAS stauts rep + lrd chiv: 6d6k3+3 17
This is going to go into an intrigue if you want Alliser to do anything further, and he is highly unlikely to be receptive to anything that might reduce his status or the standing of his house
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