[Phase 2.5] Getting Popular [Aerion]

---

See this is where I get confused with the intrigue system.

Combat is straight forward enough - do damage through a specific number of ways to defeat the enemy. When defeated, one of a finite number of predetermined outcomes happens, and you can't really avoid fighting if someone wants to fight you.

But with intrigue, it's a lot more vague. We roll similar to combat, doing 'damage' through a specific number of ways (techniques), but there's a lot of maneuverability in how those are played out. And depending on how it's worded, it should be a different technique.

"You should consider marrying my daughter." would probably be be convince since the typical response is "Why should I do that?".

But "My daughter is a catch." could just as easily be charm instead of convince mechanically if intending to set up future "It's a good idea to marry my daughter" convince success.

But then, depending on the response, technique should change accordingly. "Yes she is" means you don't need to convince Aerion that she's a good option. "How much of a catch?" could be convince, or bargain if discussing the benefits of the marriage.

There just seems to be a disconnect between trying to put a rule set to the complexity that is dialogue.

If it was just "think about this as an option maybe later ish", I don't know that it would need an intrigue. Or perhaps the issue is that my declared objective was to hear the best proposal and he wasn't even proposing anything at all?

Glad I made a knight!

"My daughter is a catch" by itself would be convince. But his goal isn't to convince me that she's a catch, as you said, it's to get me to agree to marry her later. Again my issue is mechanics vs. Roleplay.

Consequences of defeat with convince are that the person supports your position, but isn't obligated in any way to act further on that agreement or avoid acting against you later.

So let's say Aerion agrees she's a catch. Then what? Another intrigue where he tries to convince again - maybe this time with specific reasons?

From my (admittedly limited) understanding of techniques, from the sound of the above plan you detail he has, it should be the following:

Charm - improve disposition and bonus on next intrigue (mechanical effect) and get Aerion thinking positively of the family/lady.

Convince - Convince Aerion that he should marry her (with specific answers to the questions of why and/or why not), if he wins, then Aerion agrees it's beneficial to marry her (mechanical effect)

Bargain - negotiate the actual marriage details, such as dowry, lands, etc. The house rule of partial victory would likely apply here rather than all or nothing victory (mechanical effect).

I think that would make more sense from the idea of his trying to see who is interested.

As for myself, I think I was interpreting it as the 3rd step in that process than either the first or second (hence using bargain technique). And because of that, didn't really see the point of the intrigue at all since I'm waiting for him to make an offer of some kind or at least an argument of why I should consider marrying his daughter, and he's trying to make me consider considering the marriage.

I think that's a big part of my frustration (ha) with this intrigue is that I didn't understand objectives and what this intrigue was trying to accomplish on either side.

Also, question regarding objective / technique: my bargain technique was reactive to my assumption of him trying to offer my his daughters hand. Basically I will willing concider it as an idea, but want to know what's in it for me (context of him and I talking would be political gain, vs her and I talking would be more personal). In the future, if there is another misunderstanding like this, would I be able to switch starting techniques to a more appropriate one?