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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 27, 2019 2:42:57 GMT 1
"You have had a hard time of it lately, haven't you," Trystane responds, his own tone empathetic. "Your friend, your brother, your children, this man you love." When he says that, she starts, opening her mouth and raising a finger to object, but nothing comes out, and she closes her mouth and lets him continue. "So many things weighing on you. And none of it is simple to fix. Time will do some of the work, but not all." "Ashara's gone, and isn't coming back; once Aerion is married, there'll be another woman at the centre of his life - more once she starts giving him kids; and the growth my children have in my absence cannot be un-missed. I don't think any of it *can* be fixed. It's just life. It can only be endured." She sighs. "Well, the man may be fixed. Somehow. "Hey...how do I seem?" She frowns in contemplation. "I'm not fishing for compliments here; so long as you're not too derogatory, say the simple truth. Do I seem cold? Intimidating? Maybe not right now, but I mean in general." "I'm not convinced that there is a correct answer to your question, though I get the feeling I might know what your answer would be. I think you would tolerate a world full of Rennifers and no Daemons if it avoided war. For my part, I think a world full of Rennifers would not be worth living in." "Hmmm." She cants her head in thought again. "What if you could kill both of them? ...But doing so would kill Lady Ysilla as well? Again, if you don't, both will live long enough to cause considerable damage, and none of the deaths would be by your hand."
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 27, 2019 17:29:15 GMT 1
"I'm not quite sure why Ysilla is part of that question, and am similarly unsure if it's helpful to hypothetically kill off people we know when none of them can individually prevent war or death or anything really from happening. The only way to actually avoid war is to either kill every member of one side, or to convince every member of one side to join the other. Neither of which are realistic."
He picks up the brandy and swirls it lightly.
"It wasn't meant to be anything complex. I just want to wish Rennifer Waters ill in peace," he adds, before taking a quick swig.
"As to your question about how you seem... well, you do come across a bit cold, but I think it perhaps comes from your intelligence. I can see how some would find that intimidating, and I confess I did feel a little of that at first, in large part because I suspected that you were hard to impress. Tonight though, I think I may have glimpsed something more to you. You have to hide it to survive, and to protect things that matter to you, but you do care about some people a great deal. You are just careful who you let in, and rightly so."
He smirks a little.
"Or I may be completely wrong and you have successfully fooled me," he jokes.
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 27, 2019 20:17:51 GMT 1
Laena shrugs, and responds in a dull, tired voice. "Firstly, if there is an innocent person dangling off a cliff, and they need your help to get up, and you're the only one in a position to help, it's commonly seen that you are at least partially complicit in their death should you choose to not help. It doesn't cost you anything, so why wouldn't you?
"Similarly, if a man were about to kill an innocent, you could do something about it, and don't; again, you take a portion of the blame.
"So, we establish that it is possible to receive blame though *not* acting, as well as acting.
"Secondly, ten innocents dying is worse than one. A hundred is worse than ten. This seems to me to be self-evident. So, we can safely say that failing to save ten innocents that you could have saved is worse than failing to save one.
"Thirdly, if you kill an innocent, you carry the full weight of the blame. Again, self evident.
"Where things get tricky is deciding if there is a line where *partial* blame for a great crime outweighs the *full* blame of a relatively minor one.
"You are correct, both in that the exact questions I asked don't have correct answers, and that the scenarios I posited are not plausible. But trying times are coming. Times where the moral choice may not be obvious - where, in fact, there may not *be* a moral choice, merely degrees of immorality. I believe that by asking yourself those kind of questions during the relatively quiet time we have now - what lines are you or are you not prepared to cross under what circumstances - you have a better chance of coming up with an answer you can live with in the heat of the moment."
She sighs, and rests her chin atop her hands on the coping. "Or maybe I'm just a melancholic drunk, and I'm talking nonsense."
She smiles a little at his joke, but doesn't confirm or deny his speculation. "Thank you." She says, instead.
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 27, 2019 21:01:15 GMT 1
"I don't think you're being especially melancholy, though perhaps it isn't the cheeriest subject for such occasions. But you are right to be concerned about where people's lines are drawn."
He fidgets with the neck of the brandy bottle, glancing skyward.
"I'm not really sure where all of mine are anymore. Summerhall left me with a lot to think about. I try to uphold my vows and do what I believe is right, and that had been simple enough, until recently. Finding that there are people I like and care about at different points in the divide complicates things. I suppose I will probably just have to do my best to assess matters as they come. As for the broader strokes, the Blood and Fire, I don't think I'm solidly either, now that I've actually seen a little of what is going on. I believe that loyalty is a matter of honour, regardless of preference, but I also believe that a leader has a duty to listen to those he leads, lest he lose them, or more. Ser Owyn Dalt used to tell me that to knowingly follow an unrighteous man made you at least partly unrighteous yourself."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 27, 2019 22:29:25 GMT 1
Laena raises a quizzical eyebrow. "'Unrighteous'?" Quizzical, rather than critical. "You say it is unrighteous for the King to not listen to those he leads?" She tilts her head to one side. "Very well. Who did he ignore when he acknowledged Ser Rennifer's right to a trial by combat? Was there *anyone* who objected, once it was clear Ser Daemon himself would champion Lady Lysette?
"The way I remember things, people objected to the *result*, not the *decision*. At which point, it was too late. Were the King to say either 'The Seven have declared Ser Rennifer not be punished, but I am going to ignore Their will', or 'it is clear the Seven play no part in the results of this trial by combat. Therefore, I am abolishing that right, and the result this 'trial' gave.', he'd be ignoring other voices criticising *that* decision.
"I can see no path the King had available that would not result in him not listening to a portion of people who follow him.
"Does that excuse him?" She shrugs. "Not really. He knew Ser Rennifer was dangerous, but like so many others, he let himself be sucked into the perception of our brother's invincibility. He *should* have looked at the possible consequences should Lady Lysette's champion be defeated, realised how bad it would be, and have the courage to call for a Trial by Seven, to make absolutely sure of the result.
"The King was careless. Or maybe timid. *That*, to me, was his flaw, not 'not listening to those he leads'. Dangerous flaws, to be sure, either one, but not *moral* flaws. A normal lord in normal times could probably live long having one of those flaws. A King ... does not have the luxury of weakness. Not in times like these."
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 28, 2019 1:58:44 GMT 1
"You know what, this is why I don't like to talk politics with people. I did not say the King was unrighteous. You misunderstand what I said," Trystane said, a little hotly. "But if you want to go into the specifics of what happened, I will. If the King wanted to not show weakness, he ought to have denied the trial by combat and had Rennifer's hand off for what he did. It should have ended there. Before the fucker had a chance to cheat. And there definitely were objections to giving him a trial by combat, because I was one of the people who objected to it. But, as I'm sure we both recall, there was something of a fucking furore in the room at the time, and the people who said he ought to just be punished because there were clearly enough witnesses to condemn him were shouted down, so that's probably why you didn't hear them."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 28, 2019 4:04:06 GMT 1
"I thought those protests died down once Ser Daemon was selected. Hmm.
"I mean, what you suggest is straight-up against the law as it is written - every noble, no matter the crime, no matter how obvious their guilt, no matter how foul their reputation, has the right to trial by combat. No exceptions whatsoever. Bringing back trial by Seven would probably have been a *less* risky option than opening that particular door. Hard to say."
She holds up a hand. "But, you said you don't like to discuss politics with people, so let's drop it.
She mentally frantically casts around for a new topic. "So, out of all the men you've seen in the Reach, who would you most want to be interested in other men?" Really? That's what I went with? Who do you want to fuck? Well, it's said now, I guess.
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 28, 2019 13:20:04 GMT 1
"Yes, I suppose Trial by Seven would have been better. I'm sorry, Laena... I get frustrated when what is legal and what is just are not aligned. I will think on what you have said."
He raises an eyebrow at her shift in subject.
"Gods, that was an amusing switch!" he laughs, the humour of it bringing him straight out of his pensiveness. "You have quite an interesting mind, dear sister!"
He gives her a genuine smile, takes another drink, and when he speaks again, there is a glimmer of mischief in his eyes.
"So, who I would like to be interested, just the men, and I assume leaving out the married ones..."
He thinks a moment, toying with one corner of his moustache.
"One name leaps forth before any other. Ser Aubrey Ambrose," he says, the sound of the name almost wistful, his tone full of romance rather than sexuality. "He's ridiculously handsome, and I have a great weakness for gallant knights. I've been trying to edge closer and learn more, but it's the tentative dance I do when I really want something to be a certain way, and I know going closer risks finding out it can't be, so it becomes a tiptoe rather than a confident stride."
The tone shifts as he continues, becoming more casual.
"I also quite like Lord Durwell, but I think I've pretty much ruled him out. I got a bit in my cups and flirted with him at Summerhall and he thought it was a joke, though in hindsight it was unclear if it seemed like a joke because he's not interested in men or just not interested in this particular one. There's a few others I've noticed at a distance but not learned the names of yet..."
A final thought occurs to him that makes him giggle lasciviously. He forces himself to straighten his face so he can explain, but now that the smutty thought has entered his head, there's no expunging it.
"And... now, don't laugh. I know this is pure impossible fantasy, but... there's something very alluring about Ser Roland Redwyne. I'm under no illusions about how that is never going to happen, but it's hard not to be impressed by someone with both incredible skill and rugged good looks. We actually had fun drinking together after our joust too. He's quite an agreeable person, for someone who doesn't like the Dornish. I think I might also be attracted to that element of... danger? Opposition? I'm not sure what to call it, but the idea that being something he despises on some level would make proceedings more... thrilling. Embattled and frantic. There's a time to be gentle and there's a time to be an animal."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 28, 2019 16:37:44 GMT 1
He raises an eyebrow at her shift in subject. "Gods, that was an amusing switch!" he laughs, the humour of it bringing him straight out of his pensiveness. "You have quite an interesting mind, dear sister!" Laena shrugs awkwardly. "I'd sooner be dead than boring." she quips, lightly. "One name leaps forth before any other. Ser Aubrey Ambrose," he says, the sound of the name almost wistful, his tone full of romance rather than sexuality. "He's ridiculously handsome, and I have a great weakness for gallant knights. I've been trying to edge closer and learn more, but it's the tentative dance I do when I really want something to be a certain way, and I know going closer risks finding out it can't be, so it becomes a tiptoe rather than a confident stride." "We've not met, but there has to be *some* reason he's not wed yet, and it's certainly not lack of offers." She frowns. "Still, you're experienced enough that I trust I don't need to lecture you on the dangers of seeing what you *want*, rather than the *truth*. An all-too-easy mistake to make for anyone." "I also quite like Lord Durwell, but I think I've pretty much ruled him out. I got a bit in my cups and flirted with him at Summerhall and he thought it was a joke, though in hindsight it was unclear if it seemed like a joke because he's not interested in men or just not interested in this particular one. There's a few others I've noticed at a distance but not learned the names of yet..." "I've actually spent a fair amount of time with Lord Marq. He is an *intensely* political man, and very intelligent. With your lack of political connections and influence, you'd have a hard time catching his attention at the best of times. I agree that ruling him out is for the best." "And... now, don't laugh. I know this is pure impossible fantasy, but... there's something very alluring about Ser Roland Redwyne. I'm under no illusions about how that is never going to happen, but it's hard not to be impressed by someone with both incredible skill and rugged good looks. We actually had fun drinking together after our joust too. He's quite an agreeable person, for someone who doesn't like the Dornish. I think I might also be attracted to that element of... danger? Opposition? I'm not sure what to call it, but the idea that being something he despises on some level would make proceedings more... thrilling. Embattled and frantic. There's a time to be gentle and there's a time to be an animal." She raises an eyebrow. "Redtusk? Well, he's formidable and talented, with many admirable traits, to be sure. And I get what you mean about the different times. Not sure if it's something in our blood that calls us to danger - I don't have these kind of conversations when I'm sober. "Speaking of danger," finally having come up with a more 'reputable' subject for them to discuss. "Tell me of your most impressive martial feat. You mentioned when we danced that you'd slain 'monsters', albeit of the human variety. So, tell!"
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 29, 2019 2:13:28 GMT 1
"Oh don't worry. I have learned the hard way the difference between what one wants and what is."
His mind goes to Amata's sweet face, streaked with tears, the last time he saw her. He bats the memory away reflexively.
"So, to martial feats eh? Well, as primarily a tourney knight, and having been a tad too young to participate in the last war, I likely don't have as impressive tales of battle to tell as some of the knights around here, but in my time squiring for Ser Owyn Dalt, we travelled to the Boneway, on the eastern edge of the Red Mountains, and spent two years aiding House Wyl in the expulsion of the outlaw bands and savages that plagued the place. I lost count of how many exactly, but the highlight for me was fighting and defeating this grisly fucker called Blacktongue. He was rumoured to be a cannibal, and wore human bones on his armour. It's the most frightening single combat I have ever been in, and I put two spears through him before I was able to bring him down with my sword. But, I killed him, helped to wipe out his followers, and we rescued six members of a merchant caravan that he and his cohort had captured. Ser Owyn knighted me as soon as we got back to camp. I know it isn't especially grand, but it's what earned me my knighthood so I'm proud of it."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 29, 2019 3:07:01 GMT 1
Laena doesn't react when he mentions House Wyl, but she makes a mental note of that fact. One more complication...
She nods firmly at the end of his story. "As you should be! Knighthood is too frequently taken as a political appointment, rather than as a reward for both martial and chivalric excellence. Your act may not have saved anyone important, but those merchant's lives were very important to those merchants and their families. And who knows who he would have preyed on if you hadn't stopped him.
"How old were you? I mean, it sounds like you had at least some freedom from your mother, if you were able to accomplish that much."
She trails off in thought, before turning back to him. "Actually, I'm sorry, I'm not sure whether I never asked, or I just can't remember in my current state: who *is* your mother?"
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 30, 2019 1:33:46 GMT 1
"Well, I do believe that true character is how one treats those who can do nothing for you. And that saving innocents is always a good thing."
He offers the brandy to Laena again, holding it towards her by the neck.
"I was twenty when I was knighted. Ser Owyn basically charmed my mother into letting me be his squire, and to travel with him. He convinced her that trying to shield me from the world would only make me more vulnerable to it's horrors, and that it would be better to ensure I was properly trained to meet its challenges. I was also just sneaking out and being a tearaway anyway, so I think she knew I'd become uncontrollable if she didn't let me go eventually, and at least being a squire for Ser Owyn meant she knew I was with someone she trusted."
He smiles fondly as he spoke of his mother, realising that he misses her.
"My mother is Lady Talia Martell. She's a cousin and former handmaiden of Queen Mariah. That's how she met our father, and how she came to be close to Lady Allyria."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 30, 2019 2:35:43 GMT 1
Laena gives an accepting nod, and takes the brandy for another small drink, before offering it back.
"And now you're a knight, do you agree with Ser Owyn's argument? Or are you the same tearaway you were back then, just armed with a sword and good intentions, and who knows which is more dangerous?
Her eyebrows raise when he reveals his mother's name. "A Martell? Wow." She fits pieces together for a few moments. "Best you keep that quiet as long as possible - any Dornish have a target on their head here and now, great bastards naturally attract attention, and someone from House Martell is likely to attract more animosity than most. That's a dangerous combination.
"Particularly don't get complacent at times when deaths shouldn't happen, like a joust. If you get a feeling like someone's trying to kill you in a joust, don't ignore it, there's a real risk they are." She sighs. "It shouldn't be true, but sadly it is."
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Post by Trystane Sand on Apr 30, 2019 2:55:13 GMT 1
"Noted," Trystane nods.
"I think Ser Owyn did teach me to be better. I am only a moderate cad and debauchee now, and I actually gained some principles that aren't self-serving, though I expect you might say that does still constitute being the dangerous man with a sword and good intentions," he muses. "Fighting fairly has cost me more than once."
"It's ironic. I left Dorne to lie low, and Ser Davos claimed that 'nothing ever happens' at Starkwood. But it seems I have wandered into a lot more danger than either he anticipated or let on. If he was here, I might have taken him to task on that. At least the only person who has asked about my mother is you, so with any luck, nobody will take an interest if I don't volunteer the information. And I suppose I could always flee to Essos or something if I fail to win hearts and minds here," he half-jests.
Yes, of course. Run from your failings again. How fitting.
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Post by Laena Pyre on Apr 30, 2019 3:49:13 GMT 1
"Have you spoken much with Ser Mikel? Apart from having more courage than sense, he's got a good head on his shoulders, despite his birth. I remember having similar talks with him about principles.
"Oh, don't misunderstand: nothing ever does happen in Starkwood lands. If all you want to do is disappear, just stay there - even a Great Bastard will be invisible. You could likely sit out this entire war without even noticing. You'd be bored out of your mind, but you would be safe. The problems come when you *leave* Starkwood lands." She notes that his motivation has changed since they first spoke, but decides not to press. If someone were to leave Dorne to travel to the Reach to get away from something, the least you can do is let them actually leave it behind them.
"Essos is possible, but if you can take the cold, you could try the North - your blood will likely open doors, and I suspect large portions of the north will largely sit the upcoming war out, either through choice or pure logistics. There's not the Dornish animosity there is here - rather you'll be an interesting rarity." She sniffs. "Still, they've a reputation for being cold folk in more ways than one. Perhaps not the best choice for a man seeking romance."
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