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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 3, 2019 16:08:47 GMT 1
[Picking up from the River Lady event] Then, after helping the woman to lie back down and rest while proper healers came, Ashara sat beside her, held her hand, and - inexplicably to those around - burst into tears. That could have been me.Balon took a knee and outstretched a hand before withdrawing it, "Are you alright?"It took Ashara a moment to realize Balon was talking to her. His confusion evident by her crying. At first, Ashara just shook her head. What an idiot. If I was alright I wouldn't be crying, would I?"This tourney has been a living hell for me, and a lot of that is your fault." A bit overstated, perhaps, but Ashara was never one to shy away from a bit of hyperbole. "And now you are trying to take Laena away from me, too. I just don't understand why you hate me so much, just because my mother was born on the other side of the Red Mountains. Why you even hate the Dornish so much in the first place. It's stupid. You don't really know anything about them, but you hate them for some stupid reason, and it's led to so much death and strife, and soon outright war for no good reason at all. How can you be so... so stupid." This ordeal has clearly not left Ashara in peak form, when her most stinging insult was repeating the word 'stupid' over and over. Repurposing Drawbacks for shaping RP (Proud, Vindictive): 2#4d6k3 17 13Pass on Proud, fail on Vindictive. Neither technically needed to be checked, I think, but it made sense for shaping the RP.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 3, 2019 21:01:01 GMT 1
My fault?! You fucking... Balon took a few calming breaths while she vented. If he'd learned anything about women he knew that sometimes it was best to keep quiet until they finished their tirade. When she stopped he didn't immediately respond to her accusations, "Here, let me help you up." He put his hand out for her to grab. He doubted she'd take it but at least it was an olive branch.
He nodded to the nearly drowned woman, "Let's give her some space." He moved off to the side so the two could talk. "If I was so stupid do you think Laena would be interested in me?" he asked rhetorically. He swallowed hard, what he was about to do went against every fiber of his being but apologizing to Ashara mattered to Laena therefore it mattered to him, "With that said, I'm sorry for the things I said earlier. I said them in the heat of the moment and should've known better. Hopefully with the melee over you see I never had any intention to harm your family." Fucking crybaby.
"As to Dorne," he deferred, "Do you really want to talk about history and politics right now? Can't we just be happy that we saved her?"
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 3, 2019 22:46:25 GMT 1
Ashara stands on her own, and wipes her eyes. Balon was good for one thing, at least - making her pissed off enough to temporarily forget her other woes.
"As far as I know, Laena was only toying with you to keep Symon safe. I haven't spoken with her about..."
She waves her hand in his general direction.
"...you. At least not more than in passing. If you really want me to believe you aren't stupid, though, don't treat me like I am too stupid or feeble to understand you. I am happy we saved her, but you and I have more personal issues to deal with, if we are to be good-cousins."
She lowers her voice to ensure that no one can over hear her.
"First and foremost, if you hurt Laena I will fucking kill you. Which will pale in comparison to what she would do, I am sure. Tread carefully. Neither Wolves nor Dragons are to be taken lightly."
She glares at him with eyes bloodshot from crying. If looks could kill, he would be at least grievously wounded.
"Now that I have made that clear, tell me, what history justifies your hatred? The last Dornish invasion was over a hundred years ago. What has that got to do with you or me?"
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 4, 2019 7:53:32 GMT 1
"As far as I know, Laena was only toying with you to keep Symon safe. I haven't spoken with her about..." She waves her hand in his general direction. "...you. At least not more than in passing." Balon visibly stiffened at the idea of being toyed with until he realized Ashara was merely speculating. However that didn't stop Balon from tucking that little tidbit away for future use. "If you really want me to believe you aren't stupid, though, don't treat me like I am too stupid or feeble to understand you. I am happy we saved her, but you and I have more personal issues to deal with, if we are to be good-cousins." She lowers her voice to ensure that no one can over hear her. "First and foremost, if you hurt Laena I will fucking kill you. Which will pale in comparison to what she would do, I am sure. Tread carefully. Neither Wolves nor Dragons are to be taken lightly." She glares at him with eyes bloodshot from crying. If looks could kill, he would be at least grievously wounded. "I've never claimed you to be stupid or feeble." A bitch? Yes. But not stupid.
"Why would I ever hurt Laena?" Balon was genuinely confused by the statement. "I enjoy my time with her enough that I would make her my wife and call her children my own." What issues did Ashara have with men that she thought they were all lascivious, abusive assholes. "Wait... do you think I'm interested in her to make you miserable?" She's blaming me for her miserable experience maybe she thinks this is some ploy by me."Now that I have made that clear, tell me, what history justifies your hatred? The last Dornish invasion was over a hundred years ago. What has that got to do with you or me?" "The Dornish reject Andal tradition." That could've meant anything from inheritance law, to the role of women in society, to piety, but Balon didn't elaborate. "The Reach has fought Dorne for as long as there's been history. We've been the stalwart shield against your incursions. Now you're welcomed with open arms and treated better than us." He was referring to the peace accord under King Daeron and their influence at King's Landing. "Significant tax relief and incentives were given to your lords. Why? Why weren't those offered to the houses of the Reach when they were trying to rebuild after your raids? You don't think House Caswell needed something like that when rebuilding Bitterbridge?" Balon remained calm but adamant, "King Daeron's blatant political favoritism and disregard for the sacrifices of the Reachmen is why I don't like Dorne. Kingsgrave is built upon centuries of raiding and thousands of Reachman bodies. And yet now they enjoy privileges Marcher lords do not.""The Martells retain the title of Prince yet are equal to the Lords Paramount." He added derisively, "I guess some are more equal than others." Balon was rambling now, his thoughts difficult to keep coherent. "Maybe I wouldn't be so angry if King Daeron put the Seven Kingdoms ahead of his good-family." Balon finally got around to her last question, "As for you and me, to be frank I didn't give you much thought until you decided to call me a gay murderer and repeatedly slapped me." Balon subconsciously rubbed his face where she'd slapped him, "And if we're being honest, I haven't given you much thought since then. I promise you I don't wake up every morning and think 'How can I make Lady Ashara's life miserable today'." The only time he'd thought about her was when she was dancing with Titus. A question he had but was smart enough not to ask.
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 4, 2019 16:43:35 GMT 1
"Why would I ever hurt Laena?" Balon was genuinely confused by the statement. "I enjoy my time with her enough that I would make her my wife and call her children my own." What issues did Ashara have with men that she thought they were all lascivious, abusive assholes. "Wait... do you think I'm interested in her to make you miserable?" She's blaming me for her miserable experience maybe she thinks this is some ploy by me. Ashara snorts derisively.
"No, I am not nearly self-centered enough to think that. I also think you are more likely to hurt her unintentionally than intentionally - at least if you learned anything good from your father."
"The Dornish reject Andal tradition." That could've meant anything from inheritance law, to the role of women in society, to piety, but Balon didn't elaborate. "The Reach has fought Dorne for as long as there's been history. We've been the stalwart shield against your incursions. Now you're welcomed with open arms and treated better than us." He was referring to the peace accord under King Daeron and their influence at King's Landing. "Significant tax relief and incentives were given to your lords. Why? Why weren't those offered to the houses of the Reach when they were trying to rebuild after your raids? You don't think House Caswell needed something like that when rebuilding Bitterbridge?" Balon remained calm but adamant, "King Daeron's blatant political favoritism and disregard for the sacrifices of the Reachmen is why I don't like Dorne. Kingsgrave is built upon centuries of raiding and thousands of Reachman bodies. And yet now they enjoy privileges Marcher lords do not.""The Martells retain the title of Prince yet are equal to the Lords Paramount." He added derisively, "I guess some are more equal than others." Balon was rambling now, his thoughts difficult to keep coherent. "Maybe I wouldn't be so angry if King Daeron put the Seven Kingdoms ahead of his good-family." "The Targaryans reject Andal tradition, yet you want to marry one. Half the people at this tourney reject Andal tradition. Andal tradition does not mean raising arms against a lawful king, yet that doesn't seem to stop you."
She shakes her head.
"'We're' welcomed? 'My' lords? My lord is Lord Ulbert, a Reachman born and raised. Even if all that were true - which I don't agree with - it wouldn't apply to me, or my brother."
She sighs.
"Bringing Dorne into the kingdom has provided the greatest economic boon to Seven Kingdoms since Jaehaerys the Conciliator made a Pentoshi his Master of Coin. Favoritism? I guess it's playing favorites to give the Reach opportunities to flourish rather than send their best and brightest - and the rest of you - to die in yet another foolish failed attempt to do without dragons what Aegon the Conqueror couldn't do with them. If House Caswell was so unfairly treated by King Daeron, why does Lord Armond support him? because Lord Armond is smart enough to realize how good this is. How to capitalize on it, make back all that he needs and more, far more than he would get form some piddly tax exemptions."
She looks at him pointedly.
"Most of those sacrifices you are talking about were the fault of our own kings and lords. One foolish invasion after another, yielding nothing but death and loss. Is vainly sacrificing yet more lives the only way to honor the dead? If so, then you should be taking up arms against the Targaryans, not looking to wed one. How many Blackbriars died on the Field of Flames? No, you don't want to honor the dead, you want to prove yourself better than them - you want to believe that you can do what they could not. Think with your head, not your sword - either of them."
She smiles, somewhat pandering and most definitely condescendingly. Her tone takes on that soft, melodic tone that is often heard by those trying to console a child.... but her tone gradually shifts to a harder, less forgiving and definitely frustrated tone.
"I know, its not your fault, you have been brought up surrounded by those that spin lies to further their own ends, and they never bothered to teach you how to separate their ploys from the truth. Peake wants the Reach. Bittersteel wants the Riverlands. Both probably hope to wed their heirs with Blackfyre's so that their descendants will rule from the Iron Throne. They will play on whatever fears or angers they can to achieve their ambitions. Ask yourself if Lord Gormon or your mother really hate the Dornish, the way you do. Ask yourself why Bittersteel cares which of his half-brothers sits on the throne. If you really want to impress Laena, go have a calm, reasoned conversation with her about the benefits of treason. Be sure to discuss what makes this treason justified, but further treason to displace Balckfyre wouldn't be. Oh, and what economic benefits there would be for the realm - perhaps make the case that another Dance would be better for House Caswell than prosperous trade with Dorne. Surely, I am just unreasonable, and a more fair minded conversation partner would agree with you, right?"
Balon finally got around to her last question, "As for you and me, to be frank I didn't give you much thought until you decided to call me a gay murderer and repeatedly slapped me." Balon subconsciously rubbed his face where she'd slapped him, "And if we're being honest, I haven't given you much thought since then. I promise you I don't wake up every morning and think 'How can I make Lady Ashara's life miserable today'." The only time he'd thought about her was when she was dancing with Titus. A question he had but was smart enough not to ask.
"No, I would't imagine you do. You'd have to be able to think to be able to think about how to make me miserable. The sad fact is that you do it without thinking - that seems to be how you do most things."
She sighs, and looks down. Her voice takes on an odd tone, quite different from anything Balon has ever heard from Ashara before. Warm, but sad, frightened but angry, a strange melange of feelings all merged together in an unidentifiable convolution.
"You know that if there is another war, your brother isn't likely to survive it. He's too much like his father to stay out of it, but if his body is half as wrecked as the Maesters are saying, he probably wouldn't even make it to the battlefield. Surviving a battle would likely take a miracle. It's a miracle he's even still with us... and I don't know how many more miracles he has left."
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 5, 2019 18:28:22 GMT 1
Ashara snorts derisively. "No, I am not nearly self-centered enough to think that. I also think you are more likely to hurt her unintentionally than intentionally - at least if you learned anything good from your father."
"I don't plan to hurt her at all, intentional or otherwise." There was a sincerity in his voice and he clearly meant it. Whether it was enough to overcome Ashara's perception of him was another matter. "The Targaryans reject Andal tradition, yet you want to marry one. "They're adopting our culture at a much faster pace than Dorne and Dorne had a thousand year head start. Lady Laena's grandparents weren't kin, neither were her parents." He left out her great-grandparents were uncle and niece. "More and more Targaryens are marrying outside their family. The devotion to the Seven is greater than Dorne's." He was going to mention inheritance law but decided against it considering who he supported politically. "Regardless, I desire to marry Laena because of who she is, not the blood in her veins." Andal tradition does not mean raising arms against a lawful king, yet that doesn't seem to stop you." "If that was true the Andals would've never conquered Westeros. I'm sure the First Men considered themselves the lawful kings." Plus there was the possibility King Daeron wasn't even Aegon's child. Another subject he had no desire to debate with Ashara. She shakes her head. "'We're' welcomed? 'My' lords? My lord is Lord Ulbert, a Reachman born and raised. Even if all that were true - which I don't agree with - it wouldn't apply to me, or my brother." She sighs."Bringing Dorne into the kingdom has provided the greatest economic boon to Seven Kingdoms since Jaehaerys the Conciliator made a Pentoshi his Master of Coin. Favoritism? I guess it's playing favorites to give the Reach opportunities to flourish rather than send their best and brightest - and the rest of you - to die in yet another foolish failed attempt to do without dragons what Aegon the Conqueror couldn't do with them. If House Caswell was so unfairly treated by King Daeron, why does Lord Armond support him? because Lord Armond is smart enough to realize how good this is. How to capitalize on it, make back all that he needs and more, far more than he would get form some piddly tax exemptions." "Don't twist my words. You know what I mean when I say 'your'."It was Balon's turns to snort derisively, "There is absolutely no evidence that Dorne joining the Seven Kingdoms has provided some sort of economic boon. What do you import? Sand and bitter wine?" "And yes he shows favoritism when he fills King's Landing with Dornish. He shows favoritism when he protects his good family instead of serving the interests of the kingdoms. And he shows favoritism when he gives Dorne leeway that no other kingdom is allowed. The other Lords Paramount are disrespected by the King when he allows Dorne to retain their royal titles."She smiles, somewhat pandering and most definitely condescendingly. Her tone takes on that soft, melodic tone that is often heard by those trying to console a child.... but her tone gradually shifts to a harder, less forgiving and definitely frustrated tone. "I know, its not your fault, you have been brought up surrounded by those that spin lies to further their own ends, and they never bothered to teach you how to separate their ploys from the truth. Peake wants the Reach. Bittersteel wants the Riverlands. Both probably hope to wed their heirs with Blackfyre's so that their descendants will rule from the Iron Throne. They will play on whatever fears or angers they can to achieve their ambitions. Ask yourself if Lord Gormon or your mother really hate the Dornish, the way you do. Ask yourself why Bittersteel cares which of his half-brothers sits on the throne. If you really want to impress Laena, go have a calm, reasoned conversation with her about the benefits of treason. Be sure to discuss what makes this treason justified, but further treason to displace Balckfyre wouldn't be. Oh, and what economic benefits there would be for the realm - perhaps make the case that another Dance would be better for House Caswell than prosperous trade with Dorne. Surely, I am just unreasonable, and a more fair minded conversation partner would agree with you, right?"
"You speak as if you know their thoughts. You do not.""No, I would't imagine you do. You'd have to be able to think to be able to think about how to make me miserable. The sad fact is that you do it without thinking - that seems to be how you do most things." She sighs, and looks down. Her voice takes on an odd tone, quite different from anything Balon has ever heard from Ashara before. Warm, but sad, frightened but angry, a strange melange of feelings all merged together in an unidentifiable convolution.
"You know that if there is another war, your brother isn't likely to survive it. He's too much like his father to stay out of it, but if his body is half as wrecked as the Maesters are saying, he probably wouldn't even make it to the battlefield. Surviving a battle would likely take a miracle. It's a miracle he's even still with us... and I don't know how many more miracles he has left. There was a small sense of satisfaction knowing he made her miserable without even trying. Balon squinted as if trying to read her mind. What game is she playing? "Why do you care about Titus. Further more if I'm being honest about my intentions with Laena, and I am, shouldn't you be happy for her? How rare is it that people get to marry out of desire and love. Not politics or an alliance to someone you've never met."
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 5, 2019 20:47:12 GMT 1
"I don't plan to hurt her at all, intentional or otherwise." There was a sincerity in his voice and he clearly meant it. Whether it was enough to overcome Ashara's perception of him was another matter. Ashara just stares at Balon, then shakes her head disparagingly. No one plans to do something unintentionally. That's what 'unintentionally' means."They're adopting our culture at a much faster pace than Dorne and Dorne had a thousand year head start. Lady Laena's grandparents weren't kin, neither were her parents." He left out her great-grandparents were uncle and niece. "More and more Targaryens are marrying outside their family. The devotion to the Seven is greater than Dorne's." "Have you ever been to Dorne? Do you really know anything about their faith or traditions? You do realize that most Dornish are of Andal descent? Morgan Martell was an Andal. My Dayne ancestors were Andals. Even the most Rhoynish of Dornish nobles are more Andal in heritage and tradition than they are Rhoynish. The Orphans of the Greenblood are mostly Rhoynish, but they are strange to other Dornish, too. As for the Targaryans... my cousin's parents are only unrelated because The Unworthy raped a woman not his wife - his wife, of course, was also his sister. Sibling marriage is not an Andal tradition, but neither is rape nor adultery. Or at least, they are against the Seven - they seem to be awfully traditional choices of sins, however." "Regardless, I desire to marry Laena because of who she is, not the blood in her veins." "Yet you see no problem with hating me and my brother for the blood in our veins. I do not have a problem with your desiring to marry Laena. She is a beautiful intelligent woman, better than you deserve. I have a problem with your idiotic hatred and mindless devotion to treason." Andal tradition does not mean raising arms against a lawful king, yet that doesn't seem to stop you." "If that was true the Andals would've never conquered Westeros. I'm sure the First Men considered themselves the lawful kings."
"Not every thing our Andal ancestors did was in accordance to Andal tradition... further, they were conquering, not rebelling. There is a difference. Obeying one's liege is the cornerstone of Andal tradition - otherwise there would be no point to oaths of fealty. Kingdoms would not exist. Lords could not trust their knights. We would live in perpetual war. Andal society would completely self-destruct." She shakes her head. "You cannot use Andal tradition to justify some things and ignore it for others. That is nonsensical." She shakes her head. "'We're' welcomed? 'My' lords? My lord is Lord Ulbert, a Reachman born and raised. Even if all that were true - which I don't agree with - it wouldn't apply to me, or my brother." "Don't twist my words. You know what I mean when I say 'your'."She rolls her eyes. "I'm not twisting anything. You treat me as if I was born and bred Dornish, but I am not. I like Dorne, but I am Reach lady from a Reach house. I think your attitude toward the Dornish in general is ignorant and ridiculous, but to apply it to me and other Reach folk of Dornish heritage is utterly brainless." "Bringing Dorne into the kingdom has provided the greatest economic boon to Seven Kingdoms since Jaehaerys the Conciliator made a Pentoshi his Master of Coin. Favoritism? I guess it's playing favorites to give the Reach opportunities to flourish rather than send their best and brightest - and the rest of you - to die in yet another foolish failed attempt to do without dragons what Aegon the Conqueror couldn't do with them. If House Caswell was so unfairly treated by King Daeron, why does Lord Armond support him? because Lord Armond is smart enough to realize how good this is. How to capitalize on it, make back all that he needs and more, far more than he would get from some piddly tax exemptions." It was Balon's turns to snort derisively, "There is absolutely no evidence that Dorne joining the Seven Kingdoms has provided some sort of economic boon. What do you import? Sand and bitter wine?"She stares at him incredulously, again. "It's good you aren't looking to marry a lord's heir. Your know absolutely nothing about trade, do you? This is why warriors shouldn't become lords. If you can't stick it with one sword or the other you don't know a thing about it. Your sister's silks? Dornish. The lemons for the lemoncakes at Peake's masquerade? Dornish. The olives served at Lord Tyrell's feast? Dornish. The spices used to season the boar and the hart from the hunt? Most likely imported through Plankytown. There is plenty of evidence, you just don't see it. I'll tell you what - I'll do the work for you, as you are clearly either not intelligent enough or too lazy to do it yourself." [OOC: this is in reference to the "Tales We Tell Tomorrow" event.] "And yes he shows favoritism when he fills King's Landing with Dornish. He shows favoritism when he protects his good family instead of serving the interests of the kingdoms. And he shows favoritism when he gives Dorne leeway that no other kingdom is allowed. The other Lords Paramount are disrespected by the King when he allows Dorne to retain their royal titles." "That's not favoritism, that's compromise. The product of negotiation. Would you rather lose half of another generation of nobles to fail conquering Dorne again, and not get any of the benefits? If the Reach wanted the same treatment, maybe they shouldn't have lost to Aegon the Conqueror so easily. It's not like Aegon's forces were any weaker when they went to Dorne than at the Field of Fire." "You speak as if you know their thoughts. You do not." "Perhaps not, but neither do you. Have you asked? Would they tell you the truth if you did? Are you a part of the trusted inner circle or are you just a disposable pawn like Otho? Your position in the melee certainly argues the latter, not the former." "Why do you care about Titus. Further more if I'm being honest about my intentions with Laena, and I am, shouldn't you be happy for her? How rare is it that people get to marry out of desire and love. Not politics or an alliance to someone you've never met." Her eyes flash angrily when he queries her interest in Titus, but doesn't answer. " If you are being honest. If you even understand yourself. If she is truly happy, then I will be happy. Believe me, I envy her ability to choose. I just don't think you will make her happy, especially if you force her to choose between me and you. She might choose you, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't regret it."
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 6, 2019 6:50:46 GMT 1
"Have you ever been to Dorne? Do you really know anything about their faith or traditions? You do realize that most Dornish are of Andal descent? Morgan Martell was an Andal. My Dayne ancestors were Andals. Even the most Rhoynish of Dornish nobles are more Andal in heritage and tradition than they are Rhoynish. The Orphans of the Greenblood are mostly Rhoynish, but they are strange to other Dornish, too. "*Were* Andals." Neither Ashara or Balon seemed ready to relent. "Andal culture has been subsumed by the Rhoynar." Balon waved a hand at her body, "Even your skin color" Don't say infected, "changed. The only Andal blood that clings to life south of the Red Mountains are the Stone Dornish.""Yet you see no problem with hating me and my brother for the blood in our veins. I do not have a problem with your desiring to marry Laena. She is a beautiful intelligent woman, better than you deserve. I have a problem with your idiotic hatred and mindless devotion to treason." "I hate the Dornish for the history between them and the Reach. At least when Aegon the Conqueror brought the Reach to it's knees he lifted them back up. Not so with Dorne." Balon agreed with her on Laena, "She is better than I deserve and I plan to spend my life proving she made the right decision if she chooses to marry me.""As to *treason* I think you spent too much time in Dorne. If you'd spent time in the Reach or the Stormlands you'd understand why half the Seven Kingdoms are unhappy with who sits on the Iron Throne.""Not every thing our Andal ancestors did was in accordance to Andal tradition... further, they were conquering, not rebelling. There is a difference. Obeying one's liege is the cornerstone of Andal tradition - otherwise there would be no point to oaths of fealty. Kingdoms would not exist. Lords could not trust their knights. We would live in perpetual war. Andal society would completely self-destruct." She shakes her head. "You cannot use Andal tradition to justify some things and ignore it for others. That is nonsensical." "Conquering, rebelling, there is no difference. In the end it's taking power from someone else by force." "Obeying one's liege eh? So you plan to obey your father's wishes and marry Ser Quentyn (Cordwayner)? Because I hear different. Or is that *different* because you say so." "I'm not twisting anything. You treat me as if I was born and bred Dornish, but I am not. I like Dorne, but I am Reach lady from a Reach house. I think your attitude toward the Dornish in general is ignorant and ridiculous, but to apply it to me and other Reach folk of Dornish heritage is utterly brainless." "You're mother is from Dorne. You spent what, half your life in Dorne? If you were a Reach lady you'd understand the history between the two. To think Reachmen prejudice against Dorne is without merit or based in imaginary history, *that* is truly brainless."She stares at him incredulously, again. "It's good you aren't looking to marry a lord's heir. Your know absolutely nothing about trade, do you? This is why warriors shouldn't become lords. If you can't stick it with one sword or the other you don't know a thing about it. Your sister's silks? Dornish. The lemons for the lemoncakes at Peake's masquerade? Dornish. The olives served at Lord Tyrell's feast? Dornish. The spices used to season the boar and the hart from the hunt? Most likely imported through Plankytown. There is plenty of evidence, you just don't see it. I'll tell you what - I'll do the work for you, as you are clearly either not intelligent enough or too lazy to do it yourself." "I can't believe what I'm hearing. Do you think Dorne is the only place one gets silk? Do you think lemons, peppers, and olives only come from Dorne?" Balon looked at her as if she was a child, "It's laughable that you think that. No one imports something through Plankytown, travels across a desert, through mountains, then to the Reach." Balon may not have been to Dorne but he knew how to read maps, "If someone comes from across the Narrow Sea they take their goods to King's Landing or Old Town. Dorne is an afterthought when it comes to trade. *You* grossly overestimate its economic contributions.""That's not favoritism, that's compromise. The product of negotiation. Would you rather lose half of another generation of nobles to fail conquering Dorne again, and not get any of the benefits? If the Reach wanted the same treatment, maybe they shouldn't have lost to Aegon the Conqueror so easily. It's not like Aegon's forces were any weaker when they went to Dorne than at the Field of Fire." "Compromise implies the Kingdoms got something in return of value. It did not." Balon thought back to the book he'd been reading the other day about military history before his meeting with Laena. "The Field of Fire and Dorne aren't comparable. I'd be more than happy to tell you which books to read so you'd understand that.""Perhaps not, but neither do you. Have you asked? Would they tell you the truth if you did? Are you a part of the trusted inner circle or are you just a disposable pawn like Otho? Your position in the melee certainly argues the latter, not the former." "You're a public supporter of King Daeron. I suppose they've told you why they poisoned Lord Jon (Hightower)?" he asked rhetorically. "If you are being honest. If you even understand yourself. If she is truly happy, then I will be happy. Believe me, I envy her ability to choose. I just don't think you will make her happy, especially if you force her to choose between me and you. She might choose you, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't regret it." "Why would she have to choose between you and me? Your betrothed, soon to be good mother, and the House Cordwayner support Blackfyre. We're on the same side."Â
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 6, 2019 16:18:53 GMT 1
"*Were* Andals." Neither Ashara or Balon seemed ready to relent. "Andal culture has been subsumed by the Rhoynar." Balon waved a hand at her body, "Even your skin color" Don't say infected, "changed. The only Andal blood that clings to life south of the Red Mountains are the Stone Dornish." "You truly are ignorant. House Dayne are Stony Dornish. My mother's mother was a Martell, and from her we get Rhoynish skin. We are Andal all but skin deep. You are wrong though. Dornish history is plagued with prejudice and even purges of the Rhoynish. I don't even know who or what the Rhoynish gods are. Rhoynish culture has been subsumed and suppressed by Andal culture. Except for the inheritance laws, preserved by Queen Nymeriah. Is that it? Do you hate the Dornish because your male pride is threatened by the idea of women inheriting? If you cannot handle the notion of strong women leading, you are definitely making a mistake with Laena. She is not some docile weakling that will fade into the background, all but shackled to the breeding bed. She is a dragon, not a mouse." "I hate the Dornish for the history between them and the Reach. At least when Aegon the Conqueror brought the Reach to it's knees he lifted them back up. Not so with Dorne." "You mean the history of the Reach invading over and over and losing over and over? You do realize that most of the violence and tragedy in that history was instigated by the Seven Kingodoms? I won't deny that there have been ill deeds done by both sides, but do you really want that history to keep repeating? Good King Daeron has ended that history, and replaced it with peace and prosperity. Do you rally want to see your sons and grandsons die in yet another futile attempt to conquer what has never been conquered?" She shakes her head disparagingly. "Maybe you should learn from Aegon - if you forgive your foes and raise them up, you have a stronger kingdom than if you continue to punish them." "As to *treason* I think you spent too much time in Dorne. If you'd spent time in the Reach or the Stormlands you'd understand why half the Seven Kingdoms are unhappy with who sits on the Iron Throne." "Please. If people being unhappy with the King were enough to justify treason, the Unworthy's reign would have ended much sooner. No, the reason there is talk of treason now but there wasn't before is because the black-hearted conspirators of today were sycophantic toadies under the Unworthy. That is the kind of king they desire - one that will play favorites with the lords that encourage and enable their worst excesses. They do not want peace and justice, they want a corrupt king that they can profit off of. It is why I believe that Backfyre will be made a martyr in the war - he is far too good of a man to truly give them what they want. Mark my words, Bittersteel or Peake will find a way to marry their line into Blackfyre's family, and any ahead of them in the line of succession will join Ser Daemon in the grave." "Conquering, rebelling, there is no difference. In the end it's taking power from someone else by force." So the Warrior is to take the Father's role by force? and you claim to follow Andal traditions. If Ser Jasper Flowers were to take up arms against his brother - that's Lord Oakheart - and claim the House for his own, would that be justified? How is that any different than Ser Daemon rising up against his legitimate brother? Or is it unjustified because Ser Jasper is Dornish? Why then do you not rise up against Lord Jon? Woudl it have been proper for your father to have done so? Perhaps Ser Roland should rise up against his brother and claim House Cordwayner? What you suggest is madness, chaos, and the end of the kingdom and Andal ways." "Obeying one's liege eh? So you plan to obey your father's wishes and marry Ser Quentyn (Cordwayner)? Because I hear different. Or is that *different* because you say so." "You are misinformed. Neither I nor my father wish for for me to marry Ser Quentyn, since his Lady Mother and bastard Father chose to side with Blackfyre in hopes of legitimization of their bastard children. If it is proven that Ser Quentyn is not Lord Ilyn's son, then I am sure the betrothal would be dissolved. Until then Lady Maegelle will continue to spread nonsensical rumors about me, to try and manufacture a false scandal by which she could justify breaking the betrothal. No one wants this betrothal anymore, but neither side will dishonor themselves by breaking it without 'just cause' - and treasonous talk is apparently not enough justification for my father. if I were half of what she and you claim about me, I would cheerfully admit to some scandalous behavior or another to have the betrothal broken. However, no matter what you may think, I am a proper Andal woman, and will not demean myself in that way." "I can't believe what I'm hearing. Do you think Dorne is the only place one gets silk? Do you think lemons, peppers, and olives only come from Dorne?" Balon looked at her as if she was a child, "It's laughable that you think that. No one imports something through Plankytown, travels across a desert, through mountains, then to the Reach." Balon may not have been to Dorne but he knew how to read maps, "If someone comes from across the Narrow Sea they take their goods to King's Landing or Old Town. Dorne is an afterthought when it comes to trade. *You* grossly overestimate its economic contributions." "If you go to the Gardenton market, you can find Dornish merchants. They exist, they do business, so obviously there is demand for Dornish goods. I honestly do not know where else olives and lemons might come from - I have only ever had Dornish ones. Do you know how expensive it is to ship goods across the sea, especially fresh produce like lemons? Do you know how many ships are lost to storms, or attacked by pirates? Dorne may not be the only place to procure such things, but it is the best, least expensive place to get them. Merchants travel by river, or along the coast - much safer than crossing the sea - as well as through the mountains. As a lady in waiting I attended lessons with the Princess I served. Lessons from a Maester - from Oldtown. If you don't believe me, ask a Maester, or ask Ser Nestor Tyrell where they get their lemons, pepper, and olives from." "The Field of Fire and Dorne aren't comparable. I'd be more than happy to tell you which books to read so you'd understand that." "True, the Dornish won and the Reach lost. They are not comparable. The Dornish were smart enough to realize that to face a dragon in an open field was foolishness, and the Gardners died as fools." "You're a public supporter of King Daeron. I suppose they've told you why they poisoned Lord Jon (Hightower)?" he asked rhetorically. She chuckles. "It's cute that you think yourself informed. Lord Jon was not killed by the Blood faction. He and Bloodraven came to an agreement that should House Tyrell rise in rebellion then Oldtown would oppose them, and in return Lord Jon would be made Lord Paramount. It was most likely your cousin Gormon that sent the assassins, but it could have been a treasonous Hightower kinslaying." "Why would she have to choose between you and me? Your betrothed, soon to be good mother, and the House Cordwayner support Blackfyre. We're on the same side." "My father and I agree - I will not be married into that house or any other while they support treason. I will not be a hostage against House Starkwood - and to be honest, I have no doubt it would not stop my father from doing his duty in defending the King anyway. Personally I don't really care if it is Kign Daeron or Ser Daemon that sits on the throne. I just want peace to be maintained, and for Dorne to remain a part of the kingdom. It is you and those who share your prejudice that have driven me into such strident support of the true king."
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 7, 2019 5:02:39 GMT 1
"You truly are ignorant. House Dayne are Stony Dornish. My mother's mother was a Martell, and from her we get Rhoynish skin. We are Andal all but skin deep. You are wrong though. Dornish history is plagued with prejudice and even purges of the Rhoynish. I don't even know who or what the Rhoynish gods are. Rhoynish culture has been subsumed and suppressed by Andal culture. Except for the inheritance laws, preserved by Queen Nymeriah. Is that it? Do you hate the Dornish because your male pride is threatened by the idea of women inheriting? If you cannot handle the notion of strong women leading, you are definitely making a mistake with Laena. She is not some docile weakling that will fade into the background, all but shackled to the breeding bed. She is a dragon, not a mouse." "You know what, I think you've convinced me." he said mockingly. "You're clearly not of Dorne since you don't even know the difference between, Stone, Salt, and Sand Dornish." He shook his head, almost as if he felt sorry for her. "Your hatred of anything with a cock has blinded you. I chose Laena because she *is* strong, because she has a fierce intellect. If I wanted a breeder I'd find a younger woman of an important lord and keep her in a birthing bed for the next ten years."
"You mean the history of the Reach invading over and over and losing over and over? You do realize that most of the violence and tragedy in that history was instigated by the Seven Kingdoms? I won't deny that there have been ill deeds done by both sides, but do you really want that history to keep repeating? Good King Daeron has ended that history, and replaced it with peace and prosperity. Do you rally want to see your sons and grandsons die in yet another futile attempt to conquer what has never been conquered?" She shakes her head disparagingly. "Maybe you should learn from Aegon - if you forgive your foes and raise them up, you have a stronger kingdom than if you continue to punish them." "We would've raised Dorne up if your people hadn't stabbed us in the back the second we turned from them. You forget we *have* conquered you. And Dorne resorted to dishonorable tactics to get us to leave. You couldn't defeat us on the battlefield so you killed us in the streets and in our tents. You talk of Andal tradition in Dorne? Then tell me why they broke guest right. Tell me why they attacked under a peace banner. Stop acting like Dorne is a paragon of Andal virtue.""...If I were half of what she and you claim about me, I would cheerfully admit to some scandalous behavior or another to have the betrothal broken. However, no matter what you may think, I am a proper Andal woman, and will not demean myself in that way." "Yes, a proper Andal woman... Most *proper* Andal women attend a dance not intended for them then dance with other men as if they're not betrothed." he raises a hand before she can object, "Don't think I didn't see you dance with Titus." You two might as well have been fucking upright. "*Proper* Andal women don't behave like that.""If you go to the Gardenton market, you can find Dornish merchants. They exist, they do business, so obviously there is demand for Dornish goods. I honestly do not know where else olives and lemons might come from - I have only ever had Dornish ones. Do you know how expensive it is to ship goods across the sea, especially fresh produce like lemons? Do you know how many ships are lost to storms, or attacked by pirates? Dorne may not be the only place to procure such things, but it is the best, least expensive place to get them. Merchants travel by river, or along the coast - much safer than crossing the sea - as well as through the mountains. As a lady in waiting I attended lessons with the Princess I served. Lessons from a Maester - from Oldtown. If you don't believe me, ask a Maester, or ask Ser Nestor Tyrell where they get their lemons, pepper, and olives from." "When you say things like that it reinforces the belief women should never rule. You think trade by land is favored over trade by sea?" Balon was incredulous now, "That must be why Dorne is an economic powerhouse and the Free cities like Pentosh are shit-holes. Please. Do you want to know how I know Dorne isn't a trade hub like you claim? Because ships bypass your entire region to make port at Oldtown. A city on the opposite side of the continent. So please, tell me more about Dorne and it being the beacon of world trade."She chuckles. "It's cute that you think yourself informed. Lord Jon was not killed by the Blood faction. He and Bloodraven came to an agreement that should House Tyrell rise in rebellion then Oldtown would oppose them, and in return Lord Jon would be made Lord Paramount. It was most likely your cousin Gormon that sent the assassins, but it could have been a treasonous Hightower kinslaying." "I don't know what you've been sneaking from the maester's tent and smoking but you need to stop before you permanently damage your brain."Balon raised his hands and let out an exasperated sigh, "Why are we arguing?" This woman is so damn frustrating. How could anyone be this stubborn!? "Neither of us is going to change the other's mind. We have a better chance of getting the Wall to melt by yelling at it."
He thought of some very inappropriate images to help calm his mind. "I told your father earlier today that I planned to apologize to you for our argument. I've done so. It was a mistake and I regret my actions. I didn't plan for us to meet like we did but we saved her and that's something we should be proud of, even if we can't stand one another." Balon was about to do something else he'd hate himself for, "To prove to both you and Laena that I appreciate what you did I'll toast to you at Lord Karl's remembrance tonight." I pray to the Seven this shuts her up.
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 8, 2019 22:40:49 GMT 1
"You know what, I think you've convinced me." he said mockingly. "You're clearly not of Dorne since you don't even know the difference between, Stone, Salt, and Sand Dornish." She once again stares at him incredulously. " I don't know the difference? Let me give you a little history lesson. House Dayne was founded by First Men before the arrival of the Andals - much like House Gardner and all it's many branches - Florent, Rowan, Oakheart, and all the rest. House Hightower, too, was founded by First Men before the arrival of the Andals - ar eyou going to claim that they are not Andals?. Like those Reach houses, House Dayne intermingled with the Andals, and took on the Andal ways - all long before Nymeriah arrived. King Vorion Dayne was one of the six golden-fettered kings sent to the Wall - along with Yronwood, Fowler, and other Andal houses. Are you still going to claim that House Dayne is of Rhoynish descent?" "We would've raised Dorne up if your people hadn't stabbed us in the back the second we turned from them. You forget we *have* conquered you. And Dorne resorted to dishonorable tactics to get us to leave. You couldn't defeat us on the battlefield so you killed us in the streets and in our tents. You talk of Andal tradition in Dorne? Then tell me why they broke guest right. Tell me why they attacked under a peace banner. Stop acting like Dorne is a paragon of Andal virtue." "You mean like the way that you and Ser Otho broke guest rights by murdering people? The way that Peake and Bittersteel are having their pawns kill off potential generals for the King, because they fear to meet them in open battle? Or how Bittersteel slew his kinsman - or gave the order - and blamed it on the Blackwoods to try and start a war in the Riverlands? I do not claim that all Dornish are paragons of Andal virtue. I know very well that that they are not. However, as a people they are no worse than we here in the Reach, or in the Riverlands, or anywhere else." "Yes, a proper Andal woman... Most *proper* Andal women attend a dance not intended for them then dance with other men as if they're not betrothed." he raises a hand before she can object, "Don't think I didn't see you dance with Titus." "*Proper* Andal women don't behave like that." Ashara looks like she as about to slap Balon again, but instead regains her composure. "That is none of your business. I seem to recall certain rumors about you and Denyse Cordwayner, and no doubt others. I am yet a maid, but I doubt you can honestly tell me that you will go to your wedding bed still chaste." "When you say things like that it reinforces the belief women should never rule. You think trade by land is favored over trade by sea?" Balon was incredulous now, "That must be why Dorne is an economic powerhouse and the Free cities like Pentosh are shit-holes. Please. Do you want to know how I know Dorne isn't a trade hub like you claim? Because ships bypass your entire region to make port at Oldtown. A city on the opposite side of the continent. So please, tell me more about Dorne and it being the beacon of world trade." "In one breath you praise Laena for being a strong, intelligent woman and in the next you say that women are incapable of rule. Do not think that Laena will not pick up your inconsistencies. Regarding shipping by land or by sea - when did I say that Dornish merchants did not ship by sea? Of course they do. By river, by land, by sea, however they can get their goods to markets. Yes, many ships laden with goods from the Free Cities arrive at Oldtown - Dornish ships, having taken on the cargo at Plankytown, purchased from Essosi merchants that have crossed the sea. I am sure some Essossi bypass Dorne and sail direct for Oldtown, in hope of greater profits - but most would probably rather return to Essos to get another load of cargo - crossing the sea is where most of the profit is, due to the greater risk as well." Balon raised his hands and let out an exasperated sigh, "Why are we arguing?" This woman is so damn frustrating. How could anyone be this stubborn!? "Neither of us is going to change the other's mind. We have a better chance of getting the Wall to melt by yelling at it.""We are arguing because you cannot bring yourself to admit that your prejudice and politics are not in any way based on fact or reason. I would actually respect you more if you admitted that they were not reasoned positions, but continued to hold to them. Better yet would be to admit the error of your ways and actual become worthy of Laena... but snow in the Summer Isles is more likely." "I told your father earlier today that I planned to apologize to you for our argument. I've done so. It was a mistake and I regret my actions. I didn't plan for us to meet like we did but we saved her and that's something we should be proud of, even if we can't stand one another." "To prove to both you and Laena that I appreciate what you did I'll toast to you at Lord Karl's remembrance tonight." I don't remember him actually apologizing, but I really don't care - even if he did I wouldn't believe him. Maybe he did and I just dismissed it out of hand. It doesn't matter. His words are wind... and a foul wind at that."I have no doubt that you regret your actions because of the consequences you have suffered for them. I too regret slapping you - I should have more self-control than that, though my opinion on whether or not you deserved it has not changed." She shakes her head. "I would prefer you did not toast me. I did not save her for your sake, nor for the applause of drunken fools. Maybe toast Ser Daemon and Redtusk for putting sport over politics. If you really want to earn my respect - and Laena's - toast Ser Walton Wyl, and publicly proclaim that he was a good man and the Realm could use more like him in service to the throne. Prove you can overcome your senseless prejudice and maybe - maybe - be able to become a decent person worthy of my cousin's hand. I would recommend you just keep your mouth shut if the alternative is lying, though - you won't be able to fool us."
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 9, 2019 23:59:23 GMT 1
" I don't know the difference? Let me give you a little history lesson. House Dayne was founded by First Men before the arrival of the Andals - much like House Gardner and all its many branches - Florent, Rowan, Oakheart, and all the rest. House Hightower, too, was founded by First Men before the arrival of the Andals - are you going to claim that they are not Andals?. Like those Reach houses, House Dayne intermingled with the Andals, and took on the Andal ways - all long before Nymeriah arrived. King Vorion Dayne was one of the six golden-fettered kings sent to the Wall - along with Yronwood, Fowler, and other Andal houses." "Are you still going to claim that House Dayne is of Rhoynish descent?" "Yes." he said flatly. "You *were* First Men. You *were* Andal. When the Andals came to the Reach the First Men married them, adopted their culture. They became Andal by both blood and tradition. Dorne is the same. They married the Rhoynar, adopted parts of their culture. Intermingled." There was a negative connotation to the last word. "Now Dorne is Rhoynar by blood. Are there Andal remnants? Yes. The Yronwoods, the Vaiths to a lesser extent for example.""You mean like the way that you and Ser Otho broke guest rights by murdering people? The way that Peake and Bittersteel are having their pawns kill off potential generals for the King, because they fear to meet them in open battle? Or how Bittersteel slew his kinsman - or gave the order - and blamed it on the Blackwoods to try and start a war in the Riverlands?." Ashara looks like she's about to slap Balon again, but instead regains her composure. "That is none of your business. I seem to recall certain rumors about you and Denyse Cordwayner, and no doubt others. I am yet a maid, but I doubt you can honestly tell me that you will go to your wedding bed still chaste." Balon held his finger up to his ear like he'd had trouble hearing Ashara, "Did you say how Ser Otho and your brother murdered knights? Because I think that's what you said. Everyone knows Ser Walton's death was an accident. It's hard to call what your brother did an accident." He waved a hand dismissively, "The rest is desperate conjecture on your part."
"Didn't you start the rumors about me and Denyse?" He shook his head no. "Wait, you started the Lady Denyse and Redwyne rumors. Sorry, I got confused for a moment." He added dryly, "Ser Quentyn will be worth the wait." Did you ever think your personality has more to do with your virginity?"In one breath you praise Laena for being a strong, intelligent woman and in the next you say that women are incapable of rule. Do not think that Laena will not pick up your inconsistencies." "Congratulations on understanding the meaning of 'exception to the rule'.""I have no doubt that you regret your actions because of the consequences you have suffered for them. I too regret slapping you - I should have more self-control than that, though my opinion on whether or not you deserved it has not changed." She shakes her head. "I would prefer you did not toast me. I did not save her for your sake, nor for the applause of drunken fools. Maybe toast Ser Daemon and Redtusk for putting sport over politics. If you really want to earn my respect - and Laena's - toast Ser Walton Wyl, and publicly proclaim that he was a good man and the Realm could use more like him in service to the throne. Prove you can overcome your senseless prejudice and maybe - maybe - be able to become a decent person worthy of my cousin's hand. I would recommend you just keep your mouth shut if the alternative is lying, though - you won't be able to fool us." Now that she doesn't want me to toast her I want to toast her. "If you don't want people to know of your good deed then so be it. I will think of someone else to toast." He rejected Walton Wyl instantly. Ser Daemon and Redtusk would be easy enough. Balon suddenly realised he'd been talking without his shirt on the whole time. It probably bothers her to know Dornishman will never be this rugged. "Well... thank you again for helping save Lady Lyanna. And thank you for regretting slapping me. You wouldn't have had to apologize if I hadn't instigated everything." He looked over to the very wet Lyanna, "Should we escort her back to her encampment? House Florent's maester's tent?"
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 10, 2019 4:43:06 GMT 1
"House Dayne is no more or less Rhoynish than House Yronwood, but clearly you can't tell the difference between skin color and culture."
She waves her hand as if dismissing a servant or brushing away flies.
"I should have realized that trying to reason with you was a waste of time, but your father tried so hard to make peace between us and our houses, I felt like the least I could do was give you the chance to prove me wrong. Unfortunately, I wasn't."
She smiles.
"From what I saw, my brother saved my father's life from a known blackguard. Perhaps he was overzealous in doing so, but I have no doubt that most of the young men in the melee would have done the same if it was their father - even you. And no, by the way, I did not spread that rumor about you. I honestly don't know who did, though I didn't particularly try to find out, either."
She shakes her head.
"I don't care if people know about what I did. I doubt I could do anything to stop the tongues from wagging. I just don't really want to be the subject of discussion between you and your... friends."
[OOC: I read and responded to the River Lady event before this thread, so I'm not going to respond to the last part - it's covered in the other thread.]
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 10, 2019 6:11:11 GMT 1
"...but your father tried so hard to make peace between us and our houses, I felt like the least I could do was give you the chance to prove me wrong. Unfortunately, I wasn't." "Peace between our houses happens when Laena becomes my wife." He wasn't being threatening, just stating what he believed to be obvious. "You wanted to wait until after the melee to ensure your brother and father were safe from me. That's fair and smart. And if you're smart you'll admit to yourself that regardless of how you feel about me, an alliance through my marriage to Laena further ensures your family's security." Balon didn't say if it was security in the general sense or just from him. "From what I saw, my brother saved my father's life from a known blackguard. Perhaps he was overzealous in doing so, but I have no doubt that most of the young men in the melee would have done the same if it was their father - even you. And no, by the way, I did not spread that rumor about you. I honestly don't know who did, though I didn't particularly try to find out, either." Balon knew the rumor of him and Denyse had been spread by Lady Mya Rivers but that didn't stop him from accusing her and he wasn't going to divulge the information to Ashara either. He didn't want to give her another potential ally, especially the sister of Bloodraven. It would've been nice if the rumor was true but like Ashara, Denyse wasn't very pleasant to be around. At least she's an Andal. "I don't care if people know about what I did. I doubt I could do anything to stop the tongues from wagging. I just don't really want to be the subject of discussion between you and your... friends." "I know you don't care about others' opinions," Balon didn't care either but that didn't stop him from letting people know how great he was, "but this will put you and your house in a positive light.""As to you on my tongue," normally Balon enjoyed unintentional innuendo but now was not one of those times, "I plan to tell people the truth. You and I saved her and for that I'm grateful."We can call it whenever in this thread and wrap things up in the River Lady thread if you want.
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 10, 2019 15:44:39 GMT 1
"Unless you devote yourself to maintain peace rather than starting a war, such a marriage would only weaken us by preventing Laena from forging a real alliance. You are wrong that I do not care about other's opinions. One's reputation is a shield against attack, as much as a coterie of well-trained knights. that is why my father will not break my betrothal - he has worked hard to repair the damage done to our reputation by his father, and breaking the betrothal would go against that - even if no one directly involved wants it anymore."
She shakes her head.
"Your House is divided, and thus weak, inviting attack. Peace with Blackbriar only secures House Starkwood so long as House Blackbriar can remain steadfast. So long as you and your mother undermine your uncle, I will oppose this marriage."
She sighs.
"I really don't care what you think about me. No one of consequence considers your words to be of significance. You have forged a reputation for yourself of being a braggard, a brute, and a blackguard. A marriage to one of that reputation does not bolster House Starkwood's reputation, it weakens it. If you want to be worth of Laena, you need to learn to act more like Ser Daemon and Redtusk than Otho and Bittersteel. Even if you dislike our King and anything Dornish, so long as you do your duty to Lord Jon and King Daeron, and do what is beneficial to others more than what is personally profitable... then I would support this marriage. No matter how nauseating the very idea is to me."
[OOC: Trying to bring the conversation around to a relatively neutral position - something that we might not agree on, necessarily, but that we might not particularly care to argue about, either.]
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