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Post by Father on Dec 30, 2018 22:21:06 GMT 1
What does legitimization mean? Does the children a man have with his wife always come before any legitimized children that he may have with other women? Or do they rank in accordance with birth. Should the question of suitability matter in the line of succession? Such questions have plagued the discussions over drinks and meals throughout this Black Tourney. Some have suggested that a Great Council should be held to settle the dragon in the hall, others fear what might transpire if all the lords of the realm descends upon the cursed and twisted monstrosity that is Harrenhaal, The white walls of Highgarden, a beacon of light and music have been stained by blood and black deeds, a great council are more likely to rend the realms asunder in a sea of blood than bind up all the wounds. The precedence of King Maegor I being crowned ahead of his nephew is cited, rebuked by the mention of the horrors of his reigns. Of a more practical concern closer to home, is that the answers might hold significance as to what happens should the children of Lady Maegelle Cordwayner be declared as bastards. Would then Ser Normyn become the new heir, being the older brother, a bastard, but legitimized?
Optional: You may attempt as many as you like of these: Knowledge (Education) TN 9 Language (Breeding) TN 9 Cunning (Logic) TN 12 Awareness (Empathy) TN 12 Will (Courage) TN 12 Status (Reputation)+Chivalry/Virtue TN 15
-Gain a pool of bonus dice equal to total DoS scored which may be assigned to the persuasion tests as you please. -Critical Failure: increase the TN's of the challenge by +1.
Challenge: Pick a side: Blood or Fire (mark in dice rolls), this counts as publicly taking a side. Make a succession of Persuasion (Convince or Incite)+chivalry/virtue tests, starting at TN 12, with each subsequent test adding a cumulative +3 to the TN, you may stop whenever you like.
Consequences: -Each DoS is added to your rumor count toward influence fire/blood. -Each critical failure costs -1 influence. -Highest Total DoS: +1 Fire/Blood -The side with the highest total DoS across all characters: +2 Fire/Blood
Special -A DP spent affect all tests in this event -You may spend 1 influence, 1 glory or 1 DP to reduce the TN's of the persuasion tests by 3 (once for each method). -You may takes -1D on the Persuasion test to stay anonymous, and you must succeed on a Deception(Act) TN 13, simple failure on this allows you to abort your efforts.
Benefits/Drawbacks consideration Qualities marked with* does not apply with the anonymity option. Great Bastard*: +1D applies on persuasion. Authority: Reduce Persuasion TN's by 3 Famous*: Reduce Persuasion TN's by 3 Orator: Applies to the Persuasion tests (+1D, -3 TN on the tests) Vainglorious: Must test in order to stop testing for persuasion before you have suffered a critical failure. Proud: Must test in order to stop testing for persuasion before you have suffered a critical failure. Supreme Arrogance: Must still test for vainglorious even if having suffered a critical failure, may attempt a new test for each critical failure. Reviled*: Applies as normal
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jan 1, 2019 9:48:25 GMT 1
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Post by Roland Cordwayner on Jan 1, 2019 12:59:43 GMT 1
Even if he could not not summon up the arcane precedents to bolster his arguments, Roland's traditionalist, loyalist argument for favouring children from marriage were well framed. Although not of high rank himself, his fellow knights and squires heeded the words of a champion knight, even if his arguments did not reach the ears of the highest lords and ladies. The Reach was a place was a man's honour, courage and the delivery of his argument could carry as much weight as ten weighty tomes. "The revelation of a bastard can be a blessing or a curse, dependent on family circumstances. But think of the chaos we invite upon the realm if bastards inherit according to age? All the more incentive for wild tales and cunning claims when a house has a young heir or regent." Some whispered that such arguments were self-serving if the rumours regarding House Cordwayner were true, but Roland had the courage not to shirk from such debates. D12 More than a scholarly pursuit (blood) optional - Knowledge TN 9, Language (Breeding) TN 9, Will (Courage) TN12, Status (Reputation) + Chiv TN15: 3d6 8 4d6k3 14 4d6k3 16 3d6+9 21 - 0 DoS (non critical failure), 2 DoS, 1 DoS, 2 DoS 5 DoS - 5B to assign to persuasion tests D12 More than a scholarly pursuit (blood) TN 12/15/18 1b/2b/2b: 4d6k3+9 23 5d6k3+9 23 5d6k3+9 24- 7 DoS for Blood
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Post by Father on Jan 1, 2019 13:20:37 GMT 1
Mikel: It's not +5b to each test, but ones that can be divided across tests, say 5 tests with +1b each, or 2 with +2b and 1 with +1b for example. Also, you cannot have more bonus dice than test dice on any given roll, so with 3D you can get at most +3b to it. So 6k3, this post is your friend: greatbastards.boards.net/thread/7/base-mechanicsSo you'll have to redo the persuasion tests.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Jan 2, 2019 8:39:51 GMT 1
D12, Scholarly Pursuit, Language (Breeding) TN9: 4d6k3 15, 2 DoSD12, Scholarly Pursuit, Status (Reputation) + Chivalry, TN15: 3d6+5 18, 1 DoS D12, Scholarly Pursuit, Vainglorious, Will (Dedication) TN12: 4d6k3 16, Passed+3b bonus dice. 1 Glory spent to reduce TN by 3. D12, Scholarly Pursuit, Fire, Persuasion (Convince) + Chivalry, 1 Glory, 1b bonus, TN9: 4d6k3+5 14,2 DoS D12, Scholarly Pursuit, Fire, Persuasion (Convince) + Chivalry, 1 Glory, 1b bonus, TN12: 4d6k3+5 15, 1 DoS D12, Scholarly Pursuit, Fire, Persuasion (Convince) + Chivalry, 1 Glory, 1b bonus, TN15: 4d6k3+5 16, 1 DoS4 DoS for Fire.If the product of incest can be king why not a legitimized bastard? And if a legitimized bastard can be king why not a lord or heir?
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jan 3, 2019 6:20:46 GMT 1
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Post by Father on Jan 3, 2019 17:38:53 GMT 1
It's sort of a debate-like setting, although people does come and go.
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Post by Eoric Applehouse on Jan 3, 2019 19:01:32 GMT 1
No fan of bastards, but less so of bureaucrats and even less so of Dorne-pampering bureaucrats. Eoric doesn't necessarily strike one as your typical Blackfyre supporter - but his continuously complaining and harsh, denouncing rhetorics, calling out everything about the current regime as cowardliness and foreign machinations makes him, and those who listens and agrees with him, easy to place within that camp. Because he sure as fuck isn't a loyalist, surely? It's not any Lords and Ladies that pays him any heed but the soldiers, the guards, sworn swords and knights of the hedge. Those of simpler minds and fouler dispositions. If Blackfyre is the one to bring Dorne to heel then what's the delay? Everyday with them standing above Men of the Mander is an affront to the gods and good common sense!
Scholarly Pursuit - Language (Breeding) v TN9: 3d6k2 11 - 1 DoS Scholarly Pursuit - Cunning (Logic) v TN12: 6d6k4 13 - 1 DoS Scholarly Pursuit - Awareness v TN12: 4d6 17 - 2 DoS Scholarly Pursuit - Will v TN12: 4d6 21 - 2 DoSOne dice too many, dropping one: 1d4 2 - New roll: 15 - 1 DoS Scholarly Pursuit - Status + Chiv v TN15: 3d6+3 9 - Crit Fail Total: 5b pool, +1 TN Starting TN is 10 (+1 Crit Fail -3 Authority) MTaSP - Fire - Convince + Chiv v TN10: 5d6k3+3 15+1b v TN10: 1d6 4 - New Roll: 16 - 2 DoS MTaSP - Fire - Convince + Chiv v TN13: 5d6k3+3 16+1b v TN13: 1d6 6 - New Roll: 19 - 2 DoS MTaSP - Fire - Convince + Chiv (+1b) v TN16: 6d6k3+3 15 - 0 DoS MTaSP - Fire - Convince + Chiv (+1b) v TN19: 6d6k3+3 17 +1b v TN19: 1d6 6 - New Roll: 19 - 1 DoS Messed up with use of the bonus +1b pool so have edited those in. If Narrator prefers I'll happily reroll. Total: 5 DoS for Fire
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Post by Septon Abelar on Jan 3, 2019 19:02:36 GMT 1
The septon holds forth at length regarding the nature of bastardy, virtue, and the holy will of the Seven. In contrast to his ravings before the smallfolk, his purpose is not to incite mayhem. Accordingly, his tone is measured and he respectfullyanswers any questions others may have. He argues that displacing a younger legitimate brother with a bastard is likely to cause war, which is why the practice is to be frowned upon. His account is rich with historical references, including to Maegor, as well as invocations of the practical danger of endangering the claims of so many legitimate sons. In the Seven-Pointed Star, it is written that bastards are untrustworthy and prone to sin. Therefore, royal legitimization is meant as a last resort so that a lord with no offspring BUT his bastard may continue his line, should his wretched bastard yet be earnest and virtuous enough to climb to a lordly chair. The presence of a legitimate heir thus obviates the need for such things, and this tool of mercy (for a lord found heirless with a bastard indeed deserves mercy, if not pity) should not be weaponized as a tool for the spawns of lust to usurp their rightful betters. [D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 6 (Famous, Orator) 0 bonus pool dice used: 7d6k5 23 (4 DOS)[D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 9 (Famous, Orator) 1 bonus pool dice used: 8d6k5 22 (3 DOS)[D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 12 (Famous, Orator) 2 bonus pool dice used: 9d6k5 24 (3 DOS)[D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 15 (Famous, Orator) 2 bonus pool dice used: 9d6k5 22 (2 DOS)[D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 18 (Famous, Orator) 2 bonus pool dice used: 9d6k5 28 (3 DOS)[D12 Scholarly Pursuit] Blood Persuasion (Convince) v. TN 21 (Famous, Orator) 2 bonus pool dice used: 9d6k5 26 (2 DOS)Persuasion 4D Convince 2B Orator 1D, TN -3 Famous TN -3 9 bonus dice pool, used as noted in Orokos description Total DOS: 17 DOS for Blood
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Post by Ashara Starkwood on Jan 4, 2019 2:08:45 GMT 1
Ashara was not a scholar... but she did have an opinion, and a few good arguments to back it up. Bastards should never be able to inherit ahead of a trueborn child - anything otherwise denigrates the Andal custom of marriage. What good is a marriage alliance if a lord can simply father a bastard and have them declared heir? No, marriage and inheritance must never be separated, if there is an alternative. Further, to protect the sanctity of inheritance and the stability of the realm, it should take far more than a mere accusation to remove someone from the line of succession. Otherwise any lord could be removed at any time by the mere suggestion that their mother was unfaithful - which of course would lead to unbridled chaos. The argument for Ser Normyn inheriting ahead of Ser Roland was pure nonsense - if a house were to pass to a bastard, it should of course be a bastard of the bloodline of that house. Ser Normyn has not a drop of Cordwayner blood, so would be as ineligible to inherit as Ser Quentyn, if the rumors be true. Unfortunately, as happens so often, people who's arguments fall apart do not appreciate their faulty reasoning being pointed out, and so Ashara may have stepped on a few toes during the course of the discussion... or at least, that's how she sees it. That she lost her head and flapped her tongue for longer than she should have does not even occur to her. D12 MtS - Optional Knowledge(Education) & Language (Breeding) TN 9: 4d6k3 10 5d6k3 9 1 DoS, 1 DoS D12 MtS - Cunning(Logic), Awareness(Empathy)&Will(Courage) TN 12: 3d6 13 6d6k4+3 23 3d6 9 1, DoS, 4 DoS, 0 DoS D12 MtS - Status (Reputation)+Virtue TN 15: 4d6+6 24 2 DoS Total DoS: 9, for pool of 9b. No critical failures. Spend 1 Influence to lower TNs by 3D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) +1b (8 remaining) TN 9: 5d6k4+6 13 1 DoS (nothing higher than a 2...) D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) +2b (6 remaining) TN 12: 6d6k4+6 22 3 DoS D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) +2b (4 remaining) TN 15: 6d6k4+6 24 2 DoS D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) +2b (2 remaining) TN 18: 6d6k4+6 27 2 DoS D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) +2b (0 remaining) TN 21: 6d6k4+6 26 2 DoS D12 MtS Proud Cunning(Logic): 3d6 10 vs TN 12 FAIL D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) TN 24: 4d6+6 22 0 DoS D12 MtS Proud #2 Cunning(Logic): 3d6 7 FAIL D12 MtS (Blood) Persuasion(Convince) TN 27: 4d6+6 19 CRITICAL FAIL Net Results: 10 DoS for Blood, -1 Influence (-2 including the spent one)
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Post by Daeron Wildfyre on Jan 4, 2019 4:56:25 GMT 1
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Post by Father on Jan 7, 2019 18:08:03 GMT 1
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Post by Parmen Redwyne on Jan 9, 2019 3:36:55 GMT 1
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Post by Father on Jan 9, 2019 7:52:22 GMT 1
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Post by Mikel of Harroway on Jan 11, 2019 9:09:20 GMT 1
[OOC: Originally posted rolls corrected/updated]
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