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Post by Father on Apr 3, 2020 15:23:56 GMT 1
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 3, 2020 16:37:12 GMT 1
This may come as a surprise but I'm not an expert on medieval siege warfare. I'd think assaulting the 3 walls just prior to the ram and tower arriving would be better as it'd force the defenders to spread themselves thin. He who defends everything, defends nothing. So, a couple turns early? Start climb on 19 so by 21 there is already fighting on the walls.
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Post by Father on Apr 4, 2020 18:19:40 GMT 1
So M2 are running back to the tower? How does G2's movements looks like (presently within archery range).
M1 and G1 are pushing the ram from rather far away? What happens to the ram at the gate?
I also think we need to do the following from here: -Higher Ground benefits are +1b, +1 damage. (But they don't get those against the Siege Tower). -Defenders have marksmanship 3 (or more) when throwing stones, stones ignores AR. -Hold the line has no effect. -Shield Wall is broken when trying to scale walls (which includes jumping down from a tower, but avoids higher ground that way) -Incendiary Arrows are at -1D, but deals normal damage.
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Post by Father on Apr 6, 2020 19:01:01 GMT 1
I think I want to do a little "sanity redraw" of the scenario. -Assumed that damaged units does CyB's to become good as new. -Ignoring everything to do with the village. -The siege tower is the only option to get the gates open (or just flood the holdfast).
Battlefield Conditions: -The Holdfast is roughly 30x30 yards and have a stone wall and a castle gate, the gate is inside the Palisades. -It is not possible to scale the Holdfast from outside the palisade with the available equipment. -A sloped path 5 yards wide stretches 60 yards around the earthworks, moving away from the path from the village gate leading up to the gate of the holdfast. Getting up to this path from anywhere else requires ascending a steep slope. Basically 200 yards to holdfast then 60 yards to the gate. -Defenders have access to incendiary arrows and boiling oil. -Attackers have a single siege tower, it is immune to all damage (can still be broken by defenders on the wall if unattended). -A single unit of defenders can man the entire holdfast wall and can perform an attack order against all units trying to scale it. -Siege Towers needs a dismounted unit to push them to move, if a unit is in the tower, another must push it. -Desperate Grounds: Defenders does not suffer the penalties from disorganized/routed, a unit does not count as routed for victory conditions if it does not retreat. -Keep: Defenders who are not destroyed may retreat into the keep to do Catch Your Breath actions, they count as routed for victory conditions until they come back out to fight. -Victory Conditions: Defenders yield if all units have the routed condition (or worse), Ser Robyn is killed, captured or yields.
Hero Action: First across the wall: -A hero that scales the walls can make his way to the gatehouse, for each enemy soldier defeated, he can as a lesser action make an Athletics (Strength) TN 9 test to progress as many yards as they score DoS up to their total movement, 50 yards must be covered in this fashion to reach the gate. -Any other hero may spend a lesser action to automatically progress along with their comrades, if more than one tests for Athletics, the best result counts. -Per combat round, a hero on the walls suffers an attack from any adjacent enemy unit with extra +D as if maximum extra time was taken. -If a hero is not attached to any unit, he suffers thrice the number of attacks (divided on number of heroes in a group on the walls, round up, minimum one attack per hero). -If reaching the gatehouse, a hero may open the gate by himself if succeeding on an Athletics (Strength) TN 21 test, extra time is allowed, and also adds any assistance bonuses again per +1D, alternatively, if an additional hero attempts to lift the bar the TN is 15, but both most succeed in the same round (if one succeeds, he may hold in place so long as he does not critically fail). -If the unit the hero is attached to managed to take the walls (i.e. it is not blocked), the unit instead makes a TN 9 test to open the gate. -If the hero(es) are defeated and there are no non-routed friendly units on the wall, the defenders can close the gates if not engaged by attackers. -A hero on the wall can only issue commands to units on the wall (or scaling the wall).
Amended/clarifications for warfare rules: -Higher Ground benefits are +1b, +1 damage. (So pretty much all attacks against units not having managed to take the walls). -Hold the line has no effect. -Shield Wall is broken when trying to scale walls, and will cut the speed at which the siege tower may be pushed in half. -Incendiary Arrows are at -1D, but deals normal damage. -If a unit manning the wall is routed, but does not withdraw, it will still block the path for any unit attempting to scale, but does no longer gain the benefit of cover or higher ground. -"Scaling" a siege tower requires a greater action (no roll), one unit can be in the tower or scaling per round.
Morale and Unit Conditions: Disorganized: -1D to everything, +3 TN for orders, reform action removes both. Routed: -1D to everything +3 TN for orders (doesn't stack with disorganized), reform action overrides the unit's autonomous action (which will be to run) this round only. CyB can be done as a lesser action if the first lesser action was a reform. Only way to improve condition is to restore health. -Commander cannot leave standing orders for reform, disorganized/routed units acts as below unless specifically ordered -Units will generally autonomously take the reform action when disorganized and always break and run unless successfully ordered to reform. -A unit can only reform once per round.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 13, 2020 6:14:19 GMT 1
Going to try and get all my questions/comments to you at once: -Higher Ground benefits are +1b, +1 damage. (But they don't get those against the Siege Tower). The +1 damage shouldn't affect stones/boiling oil. Those are only used from "higher ground" anyway. Otherwise I agree.-Defenders have marksmanship 3 (or more) when throwing stones, stones ignores AR. I don't see why they magically become better at using stones vs. a bow. If anything scaling units shouldn't have Shield affect their CD when climbing. E.g. A Guard's CD should be 7 (as opposed to 11) until they complete their scaling. Stones ignoring AR is fine.-Hold the line has no effect. That's fine. It was going to make my men pretty much immune to ranged until they got hit by stones/oil.-Shield Wall is broken when trying to scale walls (which includes jumping down from a tower, but avoids higher ground that way) No issue.-Incendiary Arrows are at -1D, but deals normal damage. Lets test it out and see what happens. -Keep: Defenders who are not destroyed may retreat into the keep to do Catch Your Breath actions, they count as routed for victory conditions until they come back out to fight. I assume this means if a unit defending a wall section retreats into the keep the wall is now in the attackers hands for the purposes of having additional units climb over? Additionally if a defender goes to engage an attacker on the wall the attacker gains one round of Higher Ground? (i.e. the defenders have to go back up the stairs) -A hero on the wall can only issue commands to units on the wall (or scaling the wall). Meaning if Balon scales the East wall he can only give orders to units scaling (or scaled) the East, North, and West walls?Additional questions: Once a unit has scaled the walls the defender loses the Higher Ground Bonus? The Plan: Some changes on South due to removal of Capped Ram. I have rolls from previous post as nothing changed for plans to scale. South:Siege Engine (Inside) - Seasoned Freeriders w/ Redtusk Siege Engine (Pushing) - Guards #1 in Shield Wall Militia #1 & #2, Guards #2 Following Siege Engine in Shield Wall Standing orders: Trailing units of M1, M2, G2, will be on standby to replace G1 should they be routed or worse. Otherwise they'll wait (out of stones/oil range) to go up siege tower when it's in place and Redtusk & Co. have hopped onto wall or standby for gate to be opened. West:
Guard #3, Militia #3 in Shield Wall - Standing Orders: Move until at wall, then scale. North:Guard #4, Militia #4 in Shield Wall - Standing Orders: Move until at wall, then scale. East:Guard #5 (w/ Balon attached), Militia #5 in Shield Wall - Standing Orders: Move until at wall, then scale. Reserve:3 Trained Free Riders, Militia #6 - Standing orders: Protect rear, then exploit destroyed castle gate. [Phase 3] Pennytree, Order Guards 3-5 / Militia 3-5, Scale Wall, Warfare (Command) TN9: 6#6d6k4 20 22 20 19 19 18Guards: +2 each Militia: +2, +2, +1 [Phase 3] Pennytree, Guards 3-5, Scale Wall, Athletics (Climb) TN15: 3#5d6k4+2 17, 1 DoS 17, 1 DoS 22, 2 DoSGuards 3 & 4 make it halfway, Guards 5 makes it all the way up.
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Post by Father on Apr 13, 2020 8:47:20 GMT 1
You should probably look at the rework in my latest post, since it appears you're working on old info.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 20, 2020 20:28:59 GMT 1
If I understand things correctly...
Siege Tower (inside): Redtusk & Seasoned Freeriders - making their way to the gate once on wall. Siege Tower (pushing): Balon & Guard 1 - Shield Wall
Guards 2 - 5: Marching behind the Siege Tower in Shield Wall Formation. Freeriders 1 - 3: In reserve, ready to sprint through gate once opened. Militia 1 - 6: In reserve.
I figure you can roll out the ranged attacks and I can backtrack for Reform orders if need be.
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Post by Father on Apr 21, 2020 1:34:44 GMT 1
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 21, 2020 21:23:45 GMT 1
Base Unit Stats:
Morale Rolls- Green 3d6k2, Trained 4d6k3, Seasoned 5d6k3
Bracken Forces 3x Trained Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: 10/10 FR2: 10/10 FR3: 10/10 5x Trained Guardsmen (Command TN 9, CD: 11, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) G1: 10/10 G2: 10/10 G3: 10/10 G4: 10/10 G5: 10/10 6x Trained Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 10/10 M2: 10/10, +1 TN M3: 10/10 M4: 10/10 M5: 10/10 M6: 10/10 Seasoned Freeriders w/ Redtusk (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 5d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) R.FR1: 12/12
1 Siege Tower
Blackwood Forces Seasoned Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: 12/12 Seasoned Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 12/12 Seasoned Archer Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 7, AR: 1, HP: 9, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Hunting Bow) AM: 9/9 2x Green Peasant Levies (Command TN 10, CD: 6, AR: 0, HP: 6, To-Hit: 2d6, Damage: 4 w/ Peasant Tool) PL1: 6/6 PL2: 6/6 [Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 1, Order R.FR Attack, Warfare (Command) TN9: 6d6k4 15, +1[Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 1, R.FR Attack: 5d6k3+1 8, No Damage
Redtusk's Freeriders move from Siege Tower to Wall. Balon's Guards #1 move into the Siege Tower. Guards 2-5 move one spot up in the line. With Redtusk and co on the wall can Balon and co attack from the siege tower and hit enemy freeriders. I feel like I read somewhere attacking from Siege Tower counts as higher ground.
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Post by Father on Apr 22, 2020 0:14:44 GMT 1
Caring little for personal safety, Redtusk jumps into the thick of it, the way he wades into the fight, a lesser man would have been overwhelmed, but not he, or at least not yet. Though if he does not get a little bit more careful, even he will be before reaching the gate. It is difficult to see what is happening from the bottom of the walls, however. That is true, +1b: 1d6 6Brings it up to 12, which deals 1 damage. Then it's Redtusk time: CD: 14, AR 11, Health 12, Move: 3 Takes 10 Aim+Attacks (with extra time): 10#9d6k6 29 21 18 25 24 28 29 23 19 265-0-0-1-1-1-0-0-5 10xlesser attacks w/bastard sword: 10#8d6k5+2 25 26 26 30 25 28 21 26 22 23Like hot knife through butter, 10 defeated little Blackwood soldiers. 10xStrength tests: 10#6d6k4 17 16 16 17 18 18 15 16 11 159*2+1*1=19 yards, 31 to go. Brackens: Redtusk: 3/12, 1 injury (tough) Blackwoods: Freeriders: 1/12
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 22, 2020 6:42:33 GMT 1
Base Unit Stats:
Morale Rolls- Green 3d6k2, Trained 4d6k3, Seasoned 5d6k3
Bracken Forces 3x Trained Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: 10/10 FR2: 10/10 FR3: 10/10 5x Trained Guardsmen (Command TN 9, CD: 11, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) G1: 10/10 G2: 10/10 G3: 10/10 G4: 10/10 G5: 10/10 6x Trained Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 10/10 M2: 10/10, +1 TN M3: 10/10 M4: 10/10 M5: 10/10 M6: 10/10 Seasoned Freeriders w/ Redtusk (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 5d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) R.FR1: 12/12
1 Siege Tower
Blackwood Forces Seasoned Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: 1/12 Seasoned Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 12/12 Seasoned Archer Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 7, AR: 1, HP: 9, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Hunting Bow) AM: 9/9 2x Green Peasant Levies (Command TN 10, CD: 6, AR: 0, HP: 6, To-Hit: 2d6, Damage: 4 w/ Peasant Tool) PL1: 6/6 PL2: 6/6 [Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 2, Order R.FR Attack, Warfare (Command) TN9: 6d6k4 19, 3 DoS, +2[Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 2, R.FR Attack: 5d6k3+2 17, 2 DoS, 8 - 4 AR = 4 Damage to Blackwood FRBalon's vanity wouldn't allow Redtusk to take all the glory. As Ser Roland and his freeriders sliced their way towards the gatehouse Balon led his men from the siege tower looking for Ser Robyn and killing anything along the way. [Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 2, Order G1 Attack, Warfare (Command) + Attached TN9: 7d6k5 23, 3 DoS, +2Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 2, G1 Attack + Higher Ground: 5d6k3+2 16, 2 DoS, 10 - 4 = 6 Damage to Blackwood FRWith 8 GAs left Balon will attack the defenders and look for Ser Robyn's whereabouts. [Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 2, Balon's 8 Aim + Cautious Attack: 8#8d6k4+1 19 22 21 20 21 20 23 15, 7 Dead Blackwood Freeriders. 1 at 1/9 HPNote: I didn't use high ground for Balon as it didn't seem appropriate. Recap: Total damage to Blackwood Freeriders before Redtusk's attacks = 17 (4 + 6 + 7) Balon's StatsStance: Cautious Primary weapon: Superior Bastard Sword CD: 14 (17) AR: 10 HP: 12/12 F/I/W: 0/0/0
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Post by Father on Apr 22, 2020 18:56:35 GMT 1
Guards can't do that, given that a unit must be routed before it'll give way, Freeriders are effectively bottled up, and they are "in the tower". Given how this setup seems to lay bare various flaws, I think it might be time for clever tactics to make it more exciting.: Archers attack tower, freeriders attack+move, Militia cycle in.: 5d6k4 20 2#4d6k3 16 16Militia gets +1 to attacking next round because that's what they'll be doing. Archers, Freeriders: 6d6k2+2 12 5d6k3+1 124 Damage to tower, 0 to FR's. Burning: 2d3-2 4Blackwood's have still higher ground: FR: 1d6 4No change, but does 6 damage instead. Attacks on Redtusk, 5 FR's, 5 Militia: 10#9d6k6 30 26 30 21 30 30 26 29 21 305-1-5-0-5-1-0-1-0-1 Redtusk: CyB: 6d6k4 19CyB: 6d6k4 16CyB: 6d6k4 18CyB: 6d6k4 20Lesser attack w/bastard sword: 8d6k5+2 17 FR at 4/12 Fatigue for CyB: 6d6k4 195xlesser attacks w/bastard sword: 5#8d6k5+2 21 26 28 20 254 Militia taken down. 4x Strength: 6d6k4 15Other 3 Strength: 3#6d6k4 14 18 209 yards. Brackens: Redtusk: 4/12, 1 injury, 1 fatigue (tough), 28/50 yards. Tower: 16/20, +4 damage per round for 4 rounds. Blackwoods: Freeriders: -5/12, disorganized. Militia: 8/12
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Post by Father on Apr 22, 2020 22:17:53 GMT 1
Hmm, under the circumstances, the freeriders probably will want to evacuate, you could override that with a TN 18 command methinks, and could order them to push their way onto the walls with Athletics (Strength) greater action vs passive athletics (strength), wouldn't make them "capture the walls" for others to come after, but would get them out of the tower and give Redtusk a better shot at making it to the gates.
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Post by Balon Blackbriar on Apr 23, 2020 21:11:59 GMT 1
Note: Blackwood FR should be at -10/12. They started R2 at 1/12 HP. Took 4 damage from Bracken FR and 7 Damage from Balon, which leads me to... I thought the Bracken FR had made it onto the wall and the Guards were queued up in the siege tower. As that is not the case I can change one of Balon's GAs. Instead of using a GA to order G1 to attack he can use it to attach himself to the Seasoned FR. Balon, Redtusk, and the freeriders are hard committing now that the siege tower is burning. Base Unit Stats:
Morale Rolls- Green 3d6k2, Trained 4d6k3, Seasoned 5d6k3
Bracken Forces 3x Trained Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: 10/10 FR2: 10/10 FR3: 10/10 5x Trained Guardsmen (Command TN 9, CD: 11, AR: 4, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) G1: 10/10 G2: 10/10 G3: 10/10 G4: 10/10 G5: 10/10 6x Trained Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 10, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 10/10 M2: 10/10, +1 TN M3: 10/10 M4: 10/10 M5: 10/10 M6: 10/10 Seasoned Freeriders w/ Redtusk & Balon (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 5d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) R.FR1: 12/12
1 Siege Tower: 16/20, +4 damage per round for 4 rounds.
Blackwood Forces Seasoned Freeriders (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 4, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 4 w/ Mace) FR1: -10/12 Seasoned Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 9, AR: 1, HP: 12, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Spear) M1: 8/12 Seasoned Archer Militia (Command TN 9, CD: 7, AR: 1, HP: 9, To-Hit: 4d6k3, Damage: 3 w/ Hunting Bow) AM: 9/9 2x Green Peasant Levies (Command TN 10, CD: 6, AR: 0, HP: 6, To-Hit: 2d6, Damage: 4 w/ Peasant Tool) PL1: 6/6 PL2: 6/6 [Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 3, Order R.FR Onto the Wall, Warfare (Command) + Attached TN18: 7d6k5 24, Success[Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 3, Order R.FR Push!, Warfare (Command) + Attached TN9: 7d6k5 21, 3 DoS, +2[Phase 3] Battle of Pennytree, Round 3, R.FR Push!, Athletics (Strength) TN13: 4d6k3+2 12, FailDo I need to test Athletics (Strength) until they make it or once per turn?
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Post by Father on Apr 24, 2020 15:30:09 GMT 1
Mmm, I think Balon needs to be grounded with the militia, considering that: 1. With the changes to morale, Balon going up there is going to wreck things more than Redtusk already is doing. 2. There's a 100 men Balon has to move past in that tower, so it's not really feasible. 3. It really makes no tactical sense to go into the tower now for Balon. 4. This still very much looks like an easier win than intended. Enemy commander gets to and hack at the Freerider's because otherwise their AR 7 will just mess things up. (Your lineup has wrong CD/AR for them, they've got upgraded equipment). Archers and Militia as they were. Command FR to reform+CyB: 4d6k3 10 Scratch that, he needs to roll 18 for this to be better than just letting the unit do that on it's own. Archers, Milita: 6d6k2+2 14 6d6k3+1 194 Damage to tower, 2 to FR's. -Continuing fire damage to be rolled for next round. -Freerider's predicament: During the round the siege tower collapses, if they push and succeeds, they'll be fine. If they spend a GA to get out, they will count as destroyed for the remainder of the battle but takes casualties as if routed, if they don't make it out of the tower one way or the other, they are destroyed. Morale, CyB: 5d6k2 12 5d6k3 16Removes -1D, +4 health. Redtusk against the rest: Attacks on Redtusk: 10#9d6k6 32 17 27 21 24 29 31 28 25 253 damage, he'll take 1 CyB CyB: 6d6k4 189x attacks: 9#8d6k5+2 22 24 26 26 30 27 24 27 269xdown 9x pushes: 9#6d6k4 16 20 21 16 19 20 17 17 1923 yards, reaches the gate. Robyn Rivers sprints to join the fray: 9x attacks on Robyn: 9#5d6k3 16 12 18 12 15 15 17 12 11CD 10, AR 7, Health 12 Back at thee!: 9#6d6k4 19 19 22 16 18 17 20 20 187-Dead-7-10-Dead-3-10-Dead-7 Brackens: Freeriders: 7/12 (individual at 7/12) Redtusk: 5/12, 1 injury, 1 fatigue (tough), At the gate. Tower: 8/20, +4 damage per round for 3 rounds, possibly an additional +4 damage for X rounds. Blackwoods: Freeriders: -1/12 (no disorganized penalty). Militia: -1/12, Disorganized. Robyn Rivers: 7/12
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