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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 22, 2018 17:54:56 GMT 1
Leana stood in the quiet of the Hall of Artists, staring at some precisely-placed swirls of paint. She could respect the talent creating the piece must have required, but she'd never seen a configuration of swirls that provoked the emotional response she'd heard others enthuse about. She probably never would. But that was no reason to stop trying.
Besides, it was a pleasant and discreet location to meet with Lady Lysette. Not that she knew why the other lady wanted to speak with her - the stated reason Aerion gave didn't even stand up to casual scrutiny. But still, a lady worth meeting, regardless.
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 1:46:56 GMT 1
Laena hasn't been waiting long before someone joins her. Lystte, dressed in a gown of green and silver, standing perhaps half a head shorter than Laena, with her yellow hair not as pale as the Targaryen bastard's by half. Her face is commendably composed, eyes resting on the painting as if it was the focus of her attention...but someone versed in body language might note the slight twisting of her hands where she held one in the other, and a bit of a fidget in her feet.
"Lady Laena," she said quietly. "Thank you for making time for me."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 2:02:33 GMT 1
"Lady Lysette." She greets the other woman. "I am notably weak when my dear younger brother asks me for something. However, I noted that he was rather ... vague about your *reason* for wanting to speak with me. Which I can only assume was deliberate on your part.
"So, Ruarza ābra. I am here. You have my full attention. What do you want?" Her tone is calm and even. Not welcoming, but not cold and accusatory, either.
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 2:46:22 GMT 1
Straight to the point. Lysette never imagined she'd rather miss how men tended to maunder around in circles, trying to spin flowery poetry into their words before trying to obliquely hint at their underlying motives. Not because she preferred it, but because she was used to it. And now she felt a little flatfooted. Nothing for it then...
"I want to ask for your help," the lady of Kingsbridge said. "in finding a husband."
She quickly pushed forward, so as not to let the wrong idea fuse into Lady Pyre's head. "I can't keep dancing out ahead of suitors forever...and I'm afraid if I keep it up, what control I might have will be taken from me. However I find myself ill-equipped, at present, to make discrete inquiries and learn the measure of the men I might consider. I can correct that with time, but...I'd like to get started sooner rather than later."
Lysette took a breath to steady herself. Just explain. No excuses. "You've been looking for a husband longer than I have, so I assume you have people who can make that sort of inquiry on your behalf without undue attention. Further, you're looking for a different kind of husband than I, so we're not in direct competition. I..."
For a moment, her calm, no-nonsense persona wavered. Only for a moment.
"I don't expect you to do it for nothing. I'm sure there are things you could use my assistance with at a gathering like this."
She turned her eyes, big and blue and innocent despite all her efforts to seem hardened. "Name it."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 3:32:48 GMT 1
Laena just looks impassively at Lysette as she speaks, her expression giving nothing away, even when the other woman basically assumes she has a personal spy network. Correctly assumes, mind you, but still. She turns back to the painting. "I can help you." The statement hangs in the air a moment as she ponders. What the hells. I'll probably be dead by the end of tomorrow, regardless. "We can do so simply - you give me a list of names, and I can tell you what, if anything, I hear about them. For that service, I'd simply like a small favour from you in return. Or, I can *actually* help you. We can discuss what you *want* versus what you *need*, and, once we know that, I can introduce you to a Lord, who can name names who fulfil those needs, and maybe a few wants as well. I can then look into the new list of names, and pass along what comes up." Her voice firms as she continues. "But be warned: if you want me to *actually* help you, I will need honest answers to personal questions. I will tell you things that will be hard to hear. And I will need your word that you will not mention anything I have said, to anyone." She sniffs. "I cannot say the things that need to be said if I need fear their hitting the gossip circles. And you would be obligated to a very, very dangerous man. Though an admirable one, as well." She pauses. "Oh, and if you want the more thorough assistance, I'll want either a second small favour, or one larger one instead." "The choice, and the consequences, are both yours."
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 19:00:03 GMT 1
Lysette is quiet for a moment, just repeating in her head the mantra, never accept the first offer, never accept the first offer. It stank of vulnerability, and even if she didn't think Laena Pyre had any reason to want to victimize her, there was no telling was there? And more, it would infect any later dealings they had. But did that apply if the first offer was reasonable? Hm.
"A dangerous, admirable man."
She looked over at Laena. She'd heard those words, or ones like them, applied to a man before in a very similar context.
"You mean Lord Marq Durwell?"
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 19:47:16 GMT 1
That question earns Lysette a raised eyebrow, then a silent nod. "I did go to him, asking for his help. I cannot yet tell you if it was the *right* decision, but it is the one I made. I am not putting forward that you do anything I myself have not done."
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 20:14:14 GMT 1
"So..." Was she getting this right? Surely not. "On the one hand you'd like me to send you fine hunters from my House, in exchange for a service you yourself claim isn't very valuable. On the other I'd owe you a favor for a service that...someone else is actually providing?"
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 20:37:51 GMT 1
Laena seems utterly unconcerned. "If you want to seek Lord Marq out yourself, go ahead. We can end this meeting right here and now. I won't take umbrage, if that's your choice.
"Of course, he is a busy man, and he can only spare so much time. And, obviously, he can only work with the information he's given. Ask for the wrong thing, and he will give you the wrong answer, through no fault of his own. What I offer with regards to names isn't giving you answers, it's giving the right questions.
"Plus, I know he likes me." At least, last we met. "Having me introduce the two of you could be beneficial." She shrugs. "Up to you. I'm no merchant, pushing her wares. I will not tell you that I can do something I cannot. I'm just here, giving you choices.
"And, to clarify: the service of simply looking up what a few men have been up is precisely as useful as the list of names is accurate to your true needs. If you have confidence that the list is accurate, the service is very useful. That *is* the service you asked me for, so I offer it. I just do not have confidence that it is what you truly need."
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 21:08:44 GMT 1
"I think I'd rather deal with you than Lord Durwell, at least for the moment," Lysette says slowly, thinking as she went. "I think I understand you better. Him, I have no real insight into."
"So lets start there. I can certainly keep confidences, and I'll of course expect anything I tell you to be kept in similar confidence...including, for now, from him. As for the hunters and favor, they're yours."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 21:26:31 GMT 1
She nods. "So be it. You have my word." She pauses. "In my view, a wise choice. My brother likes you. I like my brother. So long as those two things are true, my interests are served by helping you, and hindered by harming you.
"So, let us begin." There's a few seconds' pause, as she considers how best to start. "To start with, let's start seeing where we stand now. What do you currently seek from a husband? What are the political leanings of your father, yourself, and the Companions? And what would you say is your house's prime asset?"
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 23, 2018 22:05:00 GMT 1
Wise!
Lysette couldn't help but smile a little at what she heard as being praise. Laena seemed so elegant and controlled, the sort of lady she herself would like to be one day.
As for the questions, she answered in the order that the answers occurred to her. Which was to say, reverse order.
"House Starling is most renowned for the quality and number of the knights serving it," she said automatically. How many times had the Septa asked her that very question? "In particular the Companions, though not every knight in our service is one of them. Our forces, not just in quantity but quality, set us apart from other Houses of our size and standing."
She looked away then. The one led to the other, did it not?
"As for politics...my father serves the King, as his vows demand. However, it's not completely without nuance, because many of the knights, even some of the Companions, quietly long for a more knightly figure on the Throne. His solution has been to focus on the fundamentals. Honor. Chivalry. Upholding the vows of knighthood. Not to openly claim sides." Lysette nods. "I think that course is wise...at least for now."
Now Lysette hit that same old wall, and she sighed. "What do I currently want, now? A husband who is respectful of my wishes, but not so weak-willed that I must constantly supervise him. Who can command the loyalty of our knights and lead them by example of his own virtue and honor. And of course he can't be a Lord or an heir, because the House must remain Starling."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 23, 2018 23:35:55 GMT 1
Laena gives a firm nod as Lysette talks about her house's military power. Clearly, that was the answer she was expecting and desiring. She finally turns her attention full back to the other woman, examining her closely as she gives answers Laena clearly did not know beforehand.
"What your father is doing may have some merit, but it is not a perfect solution. Last night proved that the knives are out now in the conflict. I do not believe matters will end there. I think it safe to assume there will be retaliation. Then more. Until the conflict in the shadows is dragged out into the open. Depending on how quickly things escalate, that could be sooner than any of us suspect. This tourney, with so many powerful people so close, and so many agendas, could accelerate that escalation considerably. Let us say, for the sake of argument, that war does break out, and it happens in ... a couple of months. Your father declares 'For the King!' ... what do you see the Companions doing? Do they begrudgingly follow him? Do they quit his service, and seek their own path? Or do they decide that if they're going to be fighting the enemies of the 'True King', they might as well start with him?
"The problem with the path your father has taken is that he has allowed the sentiment you describe to linger in their hearts, settling in deep. Spreading to others within your forces, through the tight bonds of brotherhood that form between knights serving together. Had he declared early and loud what his desires were, he would have lost a few of his men, probably even a painful amount, but he could be sure of those who remain. By attempting to keep everything, he risks losing everything, particularly if events overtake him.
"One piece of advice I would give would be that, when you want to declare, both you and your father should declare together. Not necessarily synchronised, but certainly around the same time. Military houses like yours are highly prized, and should the lord and heir be in conflict, or at least, not be seen to be agreed," she shrugs "accidents do seem to happen more frequently.
"The other thing to consider is your neighbours. How do they lean? If you are surrounded by those leaning one way, that is a rather different circumstance than if they all lean the other. Again, they will be making the same calculus, paying particular attention to you, because of your military power. If you are surrounded by those undecided, if you can declare for one side, and keep your military power when you do, there is a good chance you can nudge them to align with you, out of simple fear. Sure, if they were all allied, you wouldn't win, so it won't work alone, but combined with a diplomatic approach, you could potentially secure your borders quite easily."
She pauses. "I think I may have wandered somewhat off-topic. You said your father was instilling honour, chivalry, and so on, into your knights?" She nods. "That is certainly something he would know well, from what I hear. His reputation certainly paints him as honourable, chivalric, strong, talented, keeping to the knight's oath, really, very much a shining example of what a knight *should* be. Which, inevitably, leads me to the question," and at that point, she takes a dramatic step forward, very much into Lysette's personal space, her back to a wall to make it harder to retreat, stares her right in the eyes, and in a voice that for the first time their conversation has real emotion behind it; intense, despite being little more than a whisper. "Where was he when my father was raping the love, hopes, dreams, and even sanity out of my mother? Or, if not her, how about the other, what, 899 women?" She lets the question hang for a moment, before stepping back, with a small smile. "It's an unfair question, of course. He alone could do very little. But the Knight's Oath, which has not changed in the meantime, certainly has something in it about 'protecting all women'. And yet, my father did all those things, and while unscrupulous sorts whored out their less-useful female relatives, what did honourable sorts do? They just made sure to keep their female relatives distant. No rebellion at all, and only, what, one assassination attempt? One. Now the King is threatening the power of powerful men, and suddenly they all cry 'Oh, my Chivalry!', those who were so shamelessly silent before. I fully expect you to reject this truth, but I will say it anyway, because you deserve to hear it at least once: Chivalry is *shit*, Lady Lysette," using the crudity to add emphasis with all the subtlety of wildfire. "They just tossed some flowers atop it, and called it 'fertilizer'. It looks very pretty in peacetime, but when beliefs are challenged, and people are pressed, *power* is what matters. The *only* thing. Else my father would have died on a saviour's blade long before I was born. I myself am living testament to the complete and utter failure of chivalry."
She calms down, and her voice returns to the calm tones it had before. "That is not to say that no-one has done good due to chivalry. I freely admit that a lot of good has been done under its auspices. But only when it did not threaten or risk Power. And now, here we are with ... interesting times ahead. That is what you need to keep your mind on when choosing a husband.
"And we need to be clear about something. You say you want your husband to 'respect your wishes'. With all due respect, Lady Lysette, that sounds mealy-mouthed. If you don't ask for what you truly want, you will not get it." She pauses, before forging ahead. "You want to rule? Or do you just seek to be asked when your husband makes the decisions, carrying the certainty that he will, at least sometimes, make decisions you disagree with?" There is no judgement in her tone, no condemnation when she suggests Lysette wishes to rule, simply the same calm tones, presenting choices.
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Post by Lysette Starling on Jul 24, 2018 0:01:14 GMT 1
Poor Lysette, backed against a wall, went wide-eyed with terror during Laena's rant at her. Somehow, perhaps by virtue of just being too petrified to move, she managed not to look away throughout it though. It wasn't until Laena stepped back, and she could breathe again, that Lysette dropped her eyes.
"Knightly vows cannot erase evil from men's hearts," she said quietly. "I'm not a fool, I know that. A good knight inspires others to do better, but not everyone is open to such inspiration." With effort, Lysette dragged her eyes, red-rimmed but not tearing over, back to meet Laena's. "The vows are...conflicted. A knight does vow to protect women, but also to serve his lord. I'm genuinely sorry for what happened to you. I can't even imagine that kind of horror."
"It doesn't make...what you said...true though. Men are sh...shit. Chivalry tries to make them better. It doesn't always work."
Something like despair fell over her, and she turned away from Laena.
"If I didn't have to be married, I wouldn't be. I would happily live my days and never..." Lysette choked the words off. Fantasy words for a fantasy world that didn't even exist in storybooks.
"I would rule. I don't want my husband to be a laughingstock, because it would weaken the House, and only a knight can command knights...but I would rule."
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Post by Laena Pyre on Jul 24, 2018 1:26:56 GMT 1
Laena gives a sad smile at Lysette's denial of her statement, but doesn't push further. Doesn't yell right into her face that the 'bastions of chivalry' her house has in the companions don't seem to have problems in at least talking about not serving their king (putting it mildly) right now, despite *this* king not actually doing anything against the knightly oath. Doesn't scream, grab the nearest painting, and start wrecking the entire room in a blind rage, in impotent fury at a man who saw her mother being destroyed as tolerable, but losing one inch of his own power as intolerable. "I'm sorry." She says instead. Softly, warmly. "I still feel that I had to say that, but there were better ways. Less upsetting. Less abrupt. We touched on ... an old scar of mine, and I took the pain out on you." She curtseys. "You did not deserve that. Again, my apologies." "I would rule. I don't want my husband to be a laughingstock, because it would weaken the House, and only a knight can command knights...but I would rule." Laena nods at the answer. "There's the rub, then. How can a married woman rule, without undermining her husband? There are two methods I can see, neither certain. "The first is to find a martial man, not interested in power. You're unlikely to find such a man among your suitors - don't mistake me, you're attractive, but so are a lot of other women. The main reason to choose you over those other women *is* power, even if the man isn't thinking such consciously. Matter of fact, this kind of man quite likely isn't looking to marry at all. The best way to persuade him would be through duty to his house. The downfall of this plan is that power is addictive. A man may even genuinely believe he doesn't want it. But then, when he tastes a single drop, he loves it so much, he wants a second, then a third, and before you know it, he's taken the entire canteen off you, and left you to waste away of thirst. And until he has that first sip, there is no way to tell how any man will react. "The second is love. His feelings for you, to be specific. What you feel for him doesn't actually matter. A man will do almost anything for a woman he loves, with very minimal nudging. So long as it is done cleverly, this can be done without undermining the man at all, rather it can be presented as a loving wife supporting her husband. The downfall here is twofold: a man may feign love to gain power, and love can easily fade. Particularly as years pass, children ruin your figure, and younger and prettier maids keep hovering near your husband, batting their pretty little eyelashes at him. "To my eyes, the love route is better - the Reach reacts better when the appearance is couples making decisions together, than when the woman is clearly dominant in making decisions, plus you can at least do *some* tests before the marriage happens. "If you do want to test that route later on, I can probably arrange for women of small morals and large assets to bat their eyelashes at a short list of candidates, so long as you are willing to provide the necessary financial incentive. Those who accept, you may safely discard." She makes the offer almost casually. After a moment's consideration, she carries on. "If you're not a great liar, it is certainly easier for a man to love you if you do also love him. Do you know what traits would encourage that in you? "And you never did answer my question about what you predict your knights will do should your father declare for the King. If you don't expect them to begrudgingly follow, can you think of any traits in your husband that would change that? Because one that comes to my mind is them being a Companion themselves. Not the only one, admittedly, but one worth remembering." She gives a bitter smile. "Though, of course, you risk creating a couple dozen enemies, and one ingrate." She purses her lips, takes another step back, and actually paces back and forth for a few moments before returning. "There is one other way to get what you want. A reliable way, eventually. It is more ... cold than I would expect from you, but I implied in my promise I would do *everything* I could to help you. And this is a way that will get you everything you want. So, I mention it, despite not believing it to be an apt fit for your temperament. Marry an older man. One of your father's generation. He will probably have few defences against a young beauty such as yourself. Carry his children, then, when he passes, be regent. Not for forever, true, but keep your heir close, and loyal, and you can guide policy closely for years. Lady Margaery Tyrell is, in my view, a master of that kind of game - frankly, the woman terrifies me. Terrifies and inspires." she admits. "Done poorly, you risk falling into disfavour, however."
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